Strange No Start Issue
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
If I put the new key I had cut in the security light would stay solid, but if I put the old key in one specific way (up or down it will only work one way) it didn't come on at all.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,002
Likes: 722
Problem fixed! First i would like to thank everyone who chimed in, and second the problem ended up being loose contacts on the harness that goes to the resistor. I performed a drag test and it had hardly any drag, so i pulled it apart and bent the connection tabs up and cleaned all contacts with R22. Haven't had a problem since!
Don't understand what you are doing??? Need more info to understand. Just curious.
Last edited by helga203; Dec 26, 2015 at 11:40 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Well just when I thought I had the car fixed, it wouldn't start these past few morning when it got cold outside down here in Georgia. I am completely confused now when I thought I had it down. Any ideas ?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
What is "not start"?
Does not crank???
Cranks but will not run????
Since you found problems and made changes and the problem seemed to be corrected you should treat this as a brand new problem and redo all the diagnosis you had done.
Are there any codes?
What does the security light do with the key in the ON position and not cranking the car??
Do you hear the TDR click when you attempt to crank the car?
Does not crank???
Cranks but will not run????
Since you found problems and made changes and the problem seemed to be corrected you should treat this as a brand new problem and redo all the diagnosis you had done.
Are there any codes?
What does the security light do with the key in the ON position and not cranking the car??
Do you hear the TDR click when you attempt to crank the car?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Lets START at the TDR..
1- Do you have 12 VDC on the YELLOW wire when you make all the steps to crank the engine? Use a DC Volt Meter and TEST!
2. IF,, you jump the YELLOW/BLACK stripe wire to ground, will the engine START & RUN when you make all the steps to crank the engine?
Please try those steps and answer those questions.
1- Do you have 12 VDC on the YELLOW wire when you make all the steps to crank the engine? Use a DC Volt Meter and TEST!
2. IF,, you jump the YELLOW/BLACK stripe wire to ground, will the engine START & RUN when you make all the steps to crank the engine?
Please try those steps and answer those questions.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 1,339
From: Havre de Grace Maryland
Lets START at the TDR..
1- Do you have 12 VDC on the YELLOW wire when you make all the steps to crank the engine? Use a DC Volt Meter and TEST!
2. IF,, you jump the YELLOW/BLACK stripe wire to ground, will the engine START & RUN when you make all the steps to crank the engine?
Please try those steps and answer those questions.
1- Do you have 12 VDC on the YELLOW wire when you make all the steps to crank the engine? Use a DC Volt Meter and TEST!
2. IF,, you jump the YELLOW/BLACK stripe wire to ground, will the engine START & RUN when you make all the steps to crank the engine?
Please try those steps and answer those questions.
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
THEFT DETERRENT RELAY! (TDR) Look in the passengers foot well... Remove the toe board that covers the fuse panel/BCM. On the fire wall, above the BCM will be some relays. Different numbers for different years.
The relay with FOUR WIRES is the TDR. The wire colors are: Purple, Red, Yellow and Yellow Black Stripe.
The relay with FOUR WIRES is the TDR. The wire colors are: Purple, Red, Yellow and Yellow Black Stripe.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 31
From: Jacksonville Florida
I have the same issue. I have only cleaned the contacts in the switch past the tumbler per Bill's write up. I thought that did the trick but it still happens occasionally. I put my key in the same way every time I start the car (one side is missing the logo) I only have one key, it seems to not happen as often this way. It is not a shock any more I just turn the key off and say a prayer and it usually starts right up.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Lets START at the TDR..
1- Do you have 12 VDC on the YELLOW wire when you make all the steps to crank the engine? Use a DC Volt Meter and TEST!
2. IF,, you jump the YELLOW/BLACK stripe wire to ground, will the engine START & RUN when you make all the steps to crank the engine?
Please try those steps and answer those questions.
1- Do you have 12 VDC on the YELLOW wire when you make all the steps to crank the engine? Use a DC Volt Meter and TEST!
2. IF,, you jump the YELLOW/BLACK stripe wire to ground, will the engine START & RUN when you make all the steps to crank the engine?
Please try those steps and answer those questions.
For question 2 it did not cause the car to start.
I've even went as far as to putting a resistor ohmed out to 1.13K for key #5 and made sure it worked last night while the car was warm and It did. This morning while cold apparently didn't fix anything. I have no clue what this problem could be
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
I have the same issue. I have only cleaned the contacts in the switch past the tumbler per Bill's write up. I thought that did the trick but it still happens occasionally. I put my key in the same way every time I start the car (one side is missing the logo) I only have one key, it seems to not happen as often this way. It is not a shock any more I just turn the key off and say a prayer and it usually starts right up.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Jumping the red and purple wire bypasses the TDR function completely.
Refer to the wiring diagram that Bill posted in post #8 of this thread.
What Bill is asking you to do will determine if you are getting the proper voltage to the TDR to operate it properly or if the problem is after the TDR.
If you have 12V on the yellow wire and you then connect the yellow/black wire to ground and the engine cranks then the issue is in the BCM which should be providing that ground.
If there is NOT 12V on the yellow wire then the problem is BEFORE the TDR. Specifically it could be the clutch pedal start switch or fuse #14 in the IP fuse box or the ignition switch itself.
Refer to the wiring diagram that Bill posted in post #8 of this thread.
What Bill is asking you to do will determine if you are getting the proper voltage to the TDR to operate it properly or if the problem is after the TDR.
If you have 12V on the yellow wire and you then connect the yellow/black wire to ground and the engine cranks then the issue is in the BCM which should be providing that ground.
If there is NOT 12V on the yellow wire then the problem is BEFORE the TDR. Specifically it could be the clutch pedal start switch or fuse #14 in the IP fuse box or the ignition switch itself.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
With someone holding the key in the start position you need to start checking voltages using the wiring diagram in Post #7.
When no voltage at the yellow wire of the TDR then you need to check the purple wire at the clutch pedal start switch. If there is 12V at the purple wire then the switch is the problem, If no voltage at the purple wire then you need to check for 12V at fuse #14 in the IP fuse box. Check both sides of fuse 14.
Basically you need to keep backing up in the circuit to find where the voltage stops.
When no voltage at the yellow wire of the TDR then you need to check the purple wire at the clutch pedal start switch. If there is 12V at the purple wire then the switch is the problem, If no voltage at the purple wire then you need to check for 12V at fuse #14 in the IP fuse box. Check both sides of fuse 14.
Basically you need to keep backing up in the circuit to find where the voltage stops.
Pro
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 670
Likes: 46
From: Indiana
I suspect the Park Neutral Safety Switch and would try moving the shifter lever around some when it isn't starting.
My wife drove my truck to the store when I was out of town. She called me when the truck wouldn't start at the store, doing pretty much exactly what you are describing. I advised her to try wiggling the column shift lever some. Sure enough it fired right up for her.
My wife drove my truck to the store when I was out of town. She called me when the truck wouldn't start at the store, doing pretty much exactly what you are describing. I advised her to try wiggling the column shift lever some. Sure enough it fired right up for her.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Went outside of my dealership to get the car and it was about 55 outside so of course the car started up, brought it in my shop and tested #14 fuse and have 12V at start up. Retested the tdr and had 12V at the yellow wire and 12V at the yellow black wire. I'm dazzled
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
You have a poor connection somewhere in the components shown in the wiring diagram in post #7. 
Components that get cold can shrink enough to cause intermittent or failed electrical connections if the connection is suspect to begin with.
Since your early posts indicated you had worked around the ignition switch I would revisit the connectors to the ignition switch. Disconnect them and examine for deformed pins. I've seen a few posts with starting issues that were traced back to damaged pins in the connectors at the ignition switch.
As stated by another poster the park neutral switch could be problematic. When you get a chance to get the car in the air I would examine the switch (drivers side of the trans.) to see if the wires may be damaged, the connector is on tight and I would unplug the connector and check for water or corrosion or damaged pins.
Has there ever been water on the carpet in the passenger foot well?? I have read posts where water had gotten into the fuse box and corroded connections causing all sorts of strange electrical problems.
Intermittent electrical problems are a bitch to resolve. Have to keep plugging away at the components to find the cause.
Components that get cold can shrink enough to cause intermittent or failed electrical connections if the connection is suspect to begin with.Since your early posts indicated you had worked around the ignition switch I would revisit the connectors to the ignition switch. Disconnect them and examine for deformed pins. I've seen a few posts with starting issues that were traced back to damaged pins in the connectors at the ignition switch.
As stated by another poster the park neutral switch could be problematic. When you get a chance to get the car in the air I would examine the switch (drivers side of the trans.) to see if the wires may be damaged, the connector is on tight and I would unplug the connector and check for water or corrosion or damaged pins.
Has there ever been water on the carpet in the passenger foot well?? I have read posts where water had gotten into the fuse box and corroded connections causing all sorts of strange electrical problems.
Intermittent electrical problems are a bitch to resolve. Have to keep plugging away at the components to find the cause.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
After using a test light this morning I'm with you on the problem being a short somewhere, because I put the test light on the #14 fuse in foot-well and sure enough the light would barely light up for a second and then turn off. same goes for when I put the test light in the yellow wires for the TDR. I'm not very good with electrical so I don't know if I should test the ignition switch wires now or the neutral safety switch. Thanks a ton for your help I'm finally narrowing it down.
YOU DONT HAVE A SHORT! If you did, the fuse would BLOW or you would see smoke and flames. You might have a POOR CONNECTION or a HIGH RESISTANCE CONNECTION but, not a short. If the Ignition Switch had/has dirty, corroded or BURNT CONTACTS inside the switch, that would cause the VOLTAGE/Current out of the switch on those contacts to be LOW or even fail.
You really need to get a good Multimeter and learn how to use it to troubleshoot. Unless your made of cash, you need to do everything you can to tool up and troubleshoot and fix your own car..
Bill
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Jan 7, 2016 at 03:34 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
YOU DONT HAVE A SHORT! If you did, the fuse would BLOW or you would see smoke and flames. You might have a POOR CONNECTION or a HIGH RESISTANCE CONNECTION but, not a short. If the Ignition Switch had/has dirty, corroded or BURNT CONTACTS inside the switch, that would cause the VOLTAGE/Current out of the switch on those contacts to be LOW or even fail.
You really need to get a good Multimeter and learn how to use it to troubleshoot. Unless your made of cash, you need to do everything you can to tool up and troubleshoot and fix your own car..
Bill
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
That way, when its not working, you will see the difference in voltage readings.
I kind of dont understand your question. Do you mean, what would cause the starter not to crank the engine when it hot out?
Bill