Strange No Start Issue
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Strange No Start Issue
Since the first day ive had my vette back in Feb of 2013 ive had an intermittent no start when i would turn the key to start and all the guages would work but the starter wouldnt engage. Well recently its been getting worse and worse until it was to the point it would take hours to get the car to finally start.. I recently had to replace the lock cylinder because a tumbler broke inside of it which caused me to have to buy a new ignition switch as well so i figured that wouldve probably fixed my problem, but it did not... Since then ive went ahead and replaced the starter as well as the theft deterrent relay. The car still will not crank.. Every now and then after several tries it will start. Ive taken a test light to the tdr relay and tested the wires that come from the vats system and i get no response from the ignition.. I am completely stumped at this so all help is appreciated greatly.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 1,339
From: Havre de Grace Maryland
[QUOTE=VengeanceVette;1591155787]Since the first day ive had my vette back in Feb of 2013 ive had an intermittent no start when i would turn the key to start and all the gauges would work but the starter wouldn't engage.
I had the same problem about a month ago but happen only once, so far. The CF suggestions included cleaning the Key and trying the spare key. I did both and have not experience the no start again.
I had the same problem about a month ago but happen only once, so far. The CF suggestions included cleaning the Key and trying the spare key. I did both and have not experience the no start again.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
[QUOTE=rrwirsi;1591157298]
Yeah I have 2 new keys that worked prior to this.
Since the first day ive had my vette back in Feb of 2013 ive had an intermittent no start when i would turn the key to start and all the gauges would work but the starter wouldn't engage.
I had the same problem about a month ago but happen only once, so far. The CF suggestions included cleaning the Key and trying the spare key. I did both and have not experience the no start again.
I had the same problem about a month ago but happen only once, so far. The CF suggestions included cleaning the Key and trying the spare key. I did both and have not experience the no start again.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
There are TWO parts to the IGNITION SWITCH. The KEY CYLINDER portion which includes the KEY RESISTOR SENSOR/READER & the actual SWITCH PROTION
Did you just replace the key cylinder part OR did you also replace the switch portion also???
You need to do some DC VOLTAGE testing. You need to use this schematic:
The TDR has two sides. The 12VDC High Current side and the 12VDC Low Current (relay control side).
Don't know if you have an auto or MN6 but when you do all the action necessary to crank the engine, the TDR RELAY should energize and put 12VDC 60 Amps on the PURPLE WIRE that goes to the starter solenoid.
If the relay doesn't energize, SOMETHING in the chain of switches and fuses is NOT allowing power to the coil side of the relay OR the BCM isn't happy and allowing the GROUND SIDE of the coil to go to BCM Ground through the YELLOW /BLACK stripe wire.
Here is an ignition switch post for you to examine:
- C5 ignition Switch repair - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ch-repair.html
BC
Did you just replace the key cylinder part OR did you also replace the switch portion also???
You need to do some DC VOLTAGE testing. You need to use this schematic:
The TDR has two sides. The 12VDC High Current side and the 12VDC Low Current (relay control side).
Don't know if you have an auto or MN6 but when you do all the action necessary to crank the engine, the TDR RELAY should energize and put 12VDC 60 Amps on the PURPLE WIRE that goes to the starter solenoid.
If the relay doesn't energize, SOMETHING in the chain of switches and fuses is NOT allowing power to the coil side of the relay OR the BCM isn't happy and allowing the GROUND SIDE of the coil to go to BCM Ground through the YELLOW /BLACK stripe wire.
Here is an ignition switch post for you to examine:
- C5 ignition Switch repair - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ch-repair.html
BC
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Dec 21, 2015 at 10:54 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
There are TWO parts to the IGNITION SWITCH. The KEY CYLINDER portion which includes the KEY RESISTOR SENSOR/READER & the actual SWITCH PROTION
Did you just replace the key cylinder part OR did you also replace the switch portion also???
You need to do some DC VOLTAGE testing. You need to use this schematic:
The TDR has two sides. The 12VDC High Current side and the 12VDC Low Current (relay control side).
Don't know if you have an auto or MN6 but when you do all the action necessary to crank the engine, the TDR RELAY should energize and put 12VDC 60 Amps on the PURPLE WIRE that goes to the starter solenoid.
If the relay doesn't energize, SOMETHING in the chain of switches and fuses is NOT allowing power to the coil side of the relay OR the BCM isn't happy and allowing the GROUND SIDE of the coil to go to BCM Ground through the YELLOW /BLACK stripe wire.
Here is an ignition switch post for you to examine:
- C5 ignition Switch repair - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ch-repair.html
BC
Did you just replace the key cylinder part OR did you also replace the switch portion also???
You need to do some DC VOLTAGE testing. You need to use this schematic:
The TDR has two sides. The 12VDC High Current side and the 12VDC Low Current (relay control side).
Don't know if you have an auto or MN6 but when you do all the action necessary to crank the engine, the TDR RELAY should energize and put 12VDC 60 Amps on the PURPLE WIRE that goes to the starter solenoid.
If the relay doesn't energize, SOMETHING in the chain of switches and fuses is NOT allowing power to the coil side of the relay OR the BCM isn't happy and allowing the GROUND SIDE of the coil to go to BCM Ground through the YELLOW /BLACK stripe wire.
Here is an ignition switch post for you to examine:
- C5 ignition Switch repair - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ch-repair.html
BC
I replaced the lock cylinder and the ignition switch as well. all new parts. I will take your advise on cleaning the female pig tail harness to the ignition switch and hopefully that is my problem. Its evident its somewhere between the ignition switch and the bcm, just gotta track it down I suppose.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 67
From: Bahama North Carolina
Bill,
I replaced the lock cylinder and the ignition switch as well. all new parts. I will take your advise on cleaning the female pig tail harness to the ignition switch and hopefully that is my problem. Its evident its somewhere between the ignition switch and the bcm, just gotta track it down I suppose.
I replaced the lock cylinder and the ignition switch as well. all new parts. I will take your advise on cleaning the female pig tail harness to the ignition switch and hopefully that is my problem. Its evident its somewhere between the ignition switch and the bcm, just gotta track it down I suppose.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,375
Likes: 328
From: CA.
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
You didn't say the year of your car----But early C5's have a common "column lock" issue
It was so bad that even today on early C5's because it is was a safety issue they are still fixing them under warranty----What year is your car ?
It was so bad that even today on early C5's because it is was a safety issue they are still fixing them under warranty----What year is your car ?
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know
Joe Kucinski
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2
Michael S. Palmer
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor
Joe Kucinski
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Car is an 04 so I believe the recall has already been done.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,835
Likes: 302
From: Columbia SC
A CL issue should have no effect on whether the car starts or not.
BTW, There were no effective recalls to fix CL issues unless they went into the column to make a modification. 8VETTE7 above is the expert on CL issues. The LMC5 would be the best CL fix issue and we can discuss that later.
Do you have a manual or automatic? Makes a difference for this and CL. For CL if you have an automatic then CL is not an issue from 01-04. GM did not have to have put it in.
Did you replace the electrical switch behind the key cylinder?
Knowing an answer to those two questions can help us figure this out.
Mr. Sam
BTW, There were no effective recalls to fix CL issues unless they went into the column to make a modification. 8VETTE7 above is the expert on CL issues. The LMC5 would be the best CL fix issue and we can discuss that later.
Do you have a manual or automatic? Makes a difference for this and CL. For CL if you have an automatic then CL is not an issue from 01-04. GM did not have to have put it in.
Did you replace the electrical switch behind the key cylinder?
Knowing an answer to those two questions can help us figure this out.
Mr. Sam
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
A CL issue should have no effect on whether the car starts or not.
BTW, There were no effective recalls to fix CL issues unless they went into the column to make a modification. 8VETTE7 above is the expert on CL issues. The LMC5 would be the best CL fix issue and we can discuss that later.
Do you have a manual or automatic? Makes a difference for this and CL. For CL if you have an automatic then CL is not an issue from 01-04. GM did not have to have put it in.
Did you replace the electrical switch behind the key cylinder?
Knowing an answer to those two questions can help us figure this out.
Mr. Sam
BTW, There were no effective recalls to fix CL issues unless they went into the column to make a modification. 8VETTE7 above is the expert on CL issues. The LMC5 would be the best CL fix issue and we can discuss that later.
Do you have a manual or automatic? Makes a difference for this and CL. For CL if you have an automatic then CL is not an issue from 01-04. GM did not have to have put it in.
Did you replace the electrical switch behind the key cylinder?
Knowing an answer to those two questions can help us figure this out.
Mr. Sam
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
In posts 1 and 7 the OP states that he replaced BOTH the key cylinder and the ignition switch so that question is answered.
That the column lock cannot effect whether the car will start or not. If the car is a manual trans and has had the recall service then the car COULD stall when you attempt to drive the car if the column lock system is failing. (2mph fuel shutoff enabled)
If the car is an automatic then as Sam stated you are very unlikely to have a column lock issue. Not impossible but very unlikely. If the car is a manual you might want to investigate the LMC5. Google Compliance Parts and read about the product. Highly recommended for all model year manual trans C5's and also for 97 - 2000 automatics which are affected by column lock/
OP, have you investigated the Clutch Pedal Start switch if your car is a manual or the Park Neutral Position switch if the car is an automatic??
Intermittant failure of either will result in a no crank condition. See the diagram that Bill provided in post #6 above.
That the column lock cannot effect whether the car will start or not. If the car is a manual trans and has had the recall service then the car COULD stall when you attempt to drive the car if the column lock system is failing. (2mph fuel shutoff enabled)If the car is an automatic then as Sam stated you are very unlikely to have a column lock issue. Not impossible but very unlikely. If the car is a manual you might want to investigate the LMC5. Google Compliance Parts and read about the product. Highly recommended for all model year manual trans C5's and also for 97 - 2000 automatics which are affected by column lock/
OP, have you investigated the Clutch Pedal Start switch if your car is a manual or the Park Neutral Position switch if the car is an automatic??
Intermittant failure of either will result in a no crank condition. See the diagram that Bill provided in post #6 above.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,835
Likes: 302
From: Columbia SC
Excellent, I think we are down to an issue with the connector you reference or the neutral safety switch. Could always be an interconnecting wiring/connector issue but less likely. Diagnostics can tell.
I have worked on a couple of identical issues where the neutral safety switch was the issue. One such issue was resolved by cleaning the connections which had fluid and grime all in it.
I can provide info on that when I am at home.
Mr. Sam
I have worked on a couple of identical issues where the neutral safety switch was the issue. One such issue was resolved by cleaning the connections which had fluid and grime all in it.
I can provide info on that when I am at home.
Mr. Sam
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 67
From: Bahama North Carolina
If you jump the TDR (12 volts to purple wire) it will bypass the neutral safety switch and the car should crank if the starter is good. Good way to check the switch and starter. Be careful, the car can start in gear using this method.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
I saw where you replaced the starter. Starters/solenoid can be bad out of the box or fail shortly after install. Do you hear anything when you turn the key?
If you jump the TDR (12 volts to purple wire) it will bypass the neutral safety switch and the car should crank if the starter is good. Good way to check the switch and starter. Be careful, the car can start in gear using this method.
If you jump the TDR (12 volts to purple wire) it will bypass the neutral safety switch and the car should crank if the starter is good. Good way to check the switch and starter. Be careful, the car can start in gear using this method.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Excellent, I think we are down to an issue with the connector you reference or the neutral safety switch. Could always be an interconnecting wiring/connector issue but less likely. Diagnostics can tell.
I have worked on a couple of identical issues where the neutral safety switch was the issue. One such issue was resolved by cleaning the connections which had fluid and grime all in it.
I can provide info on that when I am at home.
Mr. Sam
I have worked on a couple of identical issues where the neutral safety switch was the issue. One such issue was resolved by cleaning the connections which had fluid and grime all in it.
I can provide info on that when I am at home.
Mr. Sam
I have a tech 2 and mdi, but im not sure on how to use it to figure out what could be wrong in my case. I was hoping maybe you could chime in on this?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,835
Likes: 302
From: Columbia SC
Sure, first look at Bills Post 6, first picture. Sounds like the Neutral Safety switch, TDR relay, or the BCM is the issue. Swapping out the relay is easy to do. I think the safety switch is the most likely candidate.
If you need any DIY info on the safety switch let me know.
I would have to do some research to see how to test the BCM activation for the TDR with the Tech 2.
Mr. Sam
If you need any DIY info on the safety switch let me know.
I would have to do some research to see how to test the BCM activation for the TDR with the Tech 2.
Mr. Sam
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,634
Likes: 326
From: Greenville SC
I hope you find it soon, and it is just the switch. I had the same issue as you, but it was my starter. I know you changed it, but if all else fails, check your wiring on the starter again.
Probably not your battery, since gauges work, but just to cover all, make sure it is fully charged and good connections. May have weakened with cold and lack of use.
Probably not your battery, since gauges work, but just to cover all, make sure it is fully charged and good connections. May have weakened with cold and lack of use.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 149
Likes: 9
From: Alpharetta Georgia
Problem fixed! First i would like to thank everyone who chimed in, and second the problem ended up being loose contacts on the harness that goes to the resistor. I performed a drag test and it had hardly any drag, so i pulled it apart and bent the connection tabs up and cleaned all contacts with R22. Haven't had a problem since!