Hey folks- if you haven't known from my many posts I've been slowly pecking away at my heads/cam/intake/exhaust project

Cliff Notes Version:
206k mile car is disassembled down to short block. Considering my next move- as some things are concerning:

A) Just start reassembling the car, driving it until something catastrophic happens or starts burning ridiculous amounts of oil

B) Since I'm so far into it already- might as well pull the motor and refresh or replace the short block.

Long Version:

I'm at a crossroads- my car has 206k miles on it. My freshly ported, valve jobbed and machined 243 heads should arrive back from AI any day this week- so this means I'm ready to do reassembly after some more cleaning of the block. Looking into this- At first I was going to just start reassembly and start using it -
but a few things have me concerned:

1) My last Blackstone report last year read:
"We're seeing some high levels of aluminum and iron in this first sample from your Corvette. Aluminum is typically from pistons, with iron from steel parts like cylinders or shafts. Together, these metals
might point to some piston slapping or some other piston/cylinder wear. Have you been hearing any unusual noises from the engine? Neither metal is really cautionary at this point, especially considering your long oil run (averages are based on ~4,100 miles of oil use), so for now, just cut back to ~5,000 miles and check back to monitor trends. The trace of fuel is okay."

2) I may have screwed up and scotch brited the pistons and started to on the deck (by hand, NOT by tool). From what I read there are many differing opinions - some said it works well, others said big no since it introduces crap into the walls of the cylinder that will never come out . I used the blue supermarket kind- couldn't find an SDS so I'm not sure if it has aluminum oxide in it. Either way, I'd clean everything as best as I can and change the the oil several times at short intervals upon reassembly.

3) Since I have an earlier LS1 with the weaker rod bolts and thin cylinder walls- it's less desirable.

4) The cam bearings and the impossibility of getting to the rear one.
Any opinions on what you see here?




Thus- I'm now considering pulling the short block completely This will significantly extend the duration and the cost of this project but I'm wondering if I'm shooting myself in the foot by just reassembling the thing without pulling the block. Help!

 

I vote reassemble. You're going to turn that mole hill into a mountain with having to drop the entire drivetrain almost to get the engine out. Put it back together, drive it and start planning a build and saving your $.

 

I pulled the engine from my 2001 for a oil leak and oil consumption issue. At first I was going to repair the oil pan and its leak. Car had 146,000 miles on it. I went ahead and tore the engine down completely and began measuring cylinder walls and crankshaft.

I sent the block and heads to the machine shop for checking and cleaning. Had a valve job done to the heads and replaced valve springs, stem seals. Block checked out as new. Replaced cam bearing, main bearings, rod bearings and new stock pistons. Had cylinders ball honed for new rings.

All this was one of those I am in here so-----------------.

I ended up with about $2000.00 in parts and machine shop fees. I could have fixed the oil leak and ran the car for as long as I have the car. That is what I would do if I had it to do over.

I would put it back together and save that money for something else. Good luck with your decision.

 

An experience I had. I had a Chevy pickup that was running bad found the cam had worn lobes. I dissembled the top of engine had a valve job done replaced cam lifters timing gear and chain and put back together. I figured I would save money and not do a complete rebuild 150K miles. Well after about two weeks engine started using oil and making a knocking noise. I pulled engine removed heads sent to machine shop. Findings cylinder out of tolerance, wrist pins sticking, bored .30 over replaced pistons and reassembled. Engine ran fine I had put about 30K with no problems when I sold. If it were me I would get your engine rebuilt it you were not adding more power options. If you are adding more power I would buy a later model engine core and have it rebuilt. Just my 2 cents you can pay now or later. Make sure you keep all receipts from rebuild you will get more money for the car if you resell.

 

I think if you had to pull the block down the road, the time invested up to this point vs. time invested to do the whole engine would be worth considering. Now if you had to change the clutch too, ok maybe go ahead and pull the rest of the engine.


A big factor for me would be how long I could afford to have the car down and the room /tools/weather required to work on the car. If you have a lift in a shop and its comfortable, get to it. If you're doing it in your driveway, save yourself the headache.

 

You don't have to remove any of the drivetrain to pull the motor.


OP, I don't know about you. But if I had the motor broken down that much I would do a full rebuild. Its a No brainer to me. Youll be pissed if you have to go back in again for something you could have fixed while you already had it apart. Think about it.

The rod bolts are easily upgraded and you can get the rods resized for $10 a rod around here or cheaper. The cam bearings are easily done by your self also But I had the same shop do mine. I think it costed $60 for those. Your blackstone results don't sound that great I wouldn't just slap it back together.

 

Between the oil pan and the torque tube, it will be a pain.

 

Do some research Camaroguy72. The motor can be pulled without touching the Tqtube or oil pan VERY easily. Ive done it a good amount of times as a few others have also. Give me about 4 hours working strait through without any hiccups and I can have the motor out and on the stand broken down into a short block at least. Youll be surprised.

A good point is how long can you have the car down though. Also, Looking at how much it cost me to rebuild my motor with all upgrade parts I could've just gotten a brand new LS3 short block and started from scratch. All depends on how much money and time you have to spend. The longer you have the more money you will save in the long run.

 

You ask a tough question - and I firmly believe that the answer depends on how you are going to approach things....

If you're the type that is going to "hold back", and not run the motor hard if you don't rebuild it for fear that the bearings will go or that a rod bolt will fail - I think the answer is to pull the motor - do the rebuild and ENJOY the car.

If you worry about the amount of effort that went into the cylinder head pull - and you would really hate re-doing the job in a year or two to do the rest of the motor - do the whole job right now.

If the above descriptions don't fit you - you might want to just re-assemble things and drive her.

I worry about stuff too much - and I'm somehow not as motivated to get out in the garage and turn wrenches as I was 20 years ago... With that oil analysis - I'd be pulling the motor and doing the full rebuild. Longer - YES !!! More expensive - Somewhat. Peace of mind - WORTH IT !!!

 

Great discussion guys- this is ALOT to think about

A few more details on the situation- it's in my mom's garage (I don't have my own ) who lives about 10 minutes away from me. The car has already been down since September- I have another DD (Hyundai crossover) but DANG that thing is boring to drive If I do this, I'll need to buy some more stuff like an engine hoist/stand but I don't mind buying new tools if there's a need

I completely forgot about the oil analysis (it was done about a year ago) but that is a consideration. I also remember reading Evil Twin's discussion on how the LS1 was engineered to hit 200k... I know the car might have longer life but at this point it's likely a ticking time bomb.

I miss my car but if I stretch the project out, I can afford it (plus it's almost tax refund time )

I've had the entire driveline out at least twice- going as far as into the transmission to replace synchros , so I'm quite familiar with that part.

I would LOVE to drop in a LS3 or other block but I need to draw the line somewhere. I've already planned my build around the stock bottom end but would love to build the engine to tolerate boost in the future. I've ALWAYS wanted a forced induction car and knew the current short block probably couldn't take it.

At this point I'm going to call around to different machine shops, research my options and do more reading (and likely make more posts). Being as I know the history of the motor and it's off a running car, if I keep the OE block it can likely tolerate a light honing.. Orrr do different block completely. As stated before at the rate I'm going everything on my car is going to be brand new soon

 

I think I would go with a GM short block and buy from a discount vendor (some support this forum). Even an LS6 short block would be a good install if the later blocks (LS3) require a lot more money to set up, but I am not sure what the costs differences are to be honest. Unless you have a really good shop that is familiar with LS1, that would be my approach.

 

im whet what vettenuts say

 

If I were you... considering mom's garage and waiting for tax refund money and missing your car, if it were me I would to the following


1) Buy a newer block, build it separately as you can, then install it when the one in your car goes. Get all your new parts you're going to want including a clutch kit. When ready, drop it in.


or take it out now, hopefully the car will be ready for spring.


You've got a reasonable amount of hours in it so far, but not a no-turning back point. It's still simple all things considered. Depends how much time you have I guess. I hate downtime so I am a bit biased.,

 

I would look for a good running 2002-ish Z06 short block to build or a complete engine to drop in. That gives you a good bottom end with the better rings, you already have the heads, and they make plenty of power without worrying about the driveline. If you start building for power, like forced induction, the high mileage parts of your driveline will need attention. Bigger driveshaft and couplers, output shafts, etc. After years of fighting and tweaking modified engines (and breaking things at inopportune moments), I'm really enjoying the stock Z06 in my C5.

 

Good advice from the fellas here. I like camaroguy72's approach. Build a motor on the side if you really want her back on the road. That way, when she goes, you wont have nearly the down time in waiting for parts and installation.

 

Thanks for the replies everyone. After kicking this around here's what I'm going to do- the blackstone analysis was concerning. While nothing has catastrophically failed yet, I'll take out the block and send it to the local machine shop. For ~$150 they will disassemble, hot tank and clean it thoroughly and check the specs - which means I can stop scraping the damn graphite headgasket off the deck. Based on what they find, I'll get items replaced items as needed, refresh the rings, cam bearings, hone the cylinders (yes I'm aware it can only do .005"), upgrade the rod bolts, maybe get the rear oil galley cut etc. I know my early year/high mile block isn't the most desirable but at least I know it's out of a running car and don't plan on beating the crap out of it.

While I do miss the car- a few more weeks down really won't hurt me. I've got the insurance and satellite radio suspended too. My new goal is Easter to have everything done. In fact in the spring/summer time I'm usually riding my motorcycle anyway
While it's tempting to go all out with another block, I'm going to take one step at a time- first just experience the new 243 ported heads and cam, see how I like it. Once I get tired of that, then I'll take it to the next level.

This weekend my friend is going to bring over his cherry picker and help me pull the short block. I realize after this the block won't be honeable anymore if honed and I'll be doing certain things twice, but this should hold me over for several years. In 2 more years the car will qualify for historic plates too, so no more emissions and cheaper registration + insurance I'm also curious to see after owning the car for so long how well everything survived.

Then in the mean time I'll slowly search for another short block - either like to do a LS2 402 stroker, or build a smaller cube block for supercharger use, along with the C6Z driveline parts. Even if that build takes several years, I can do it on its side, wait for the best deal to show up etc. My last car I had the reverse problem- there was literally NOTHING available aftermarket. But for the LS's- there's so many ways to skin a cat, it's hard to decide and it's hard to resist "for only X more, you can upgrade/add ___ just in case you decide to do ___ later on...."

Thanks for the help everyone, it took almost a week of research and thinking on what to do. Anyone have other thoughts, definitely chime in!

 

Every time I have rebuilt heads and not rebuilt the lower end, the engine soon grenaded.

My father who was a truck fleet mechanic and had hundreds of engine builds behind him also advised to never do the top end if you weren't going to do the bottom end.

I don't expect you'll take my advice any more than I used to take his. But I do now.

 

No offense to you or your hard working father, but that just isn't the case with a LS motor. Ive seen hundreds of cam only and H/C cars run for years with no bottom end issues. Not as long as they didn't pinch the infamous o-ring (which usually rears its ugly face early on). Now for those who chose the giggle juice.....ehhhh that may be another story.