How do I break 500???
03-02-2016, 11:14 AM
#1
How do I break 500???
Car made 487 yesterday and I was really aiming for 500 - any ideas on how to get there? (NA no spray, that's later lol)
Callaway intake
100mm MAF
NW 102
Fast 102
56# injectors
OE rotating assy
PRC stage 2.5 heads
288/291 .605/.610 111LSA cam
Johnson short travels
Yella Terra Roller rockers
3/8" pushrods
1-3/4" LT's
high flow catted X
Borla stingers
graph was still climbing at 7k - barely, but was climbing...
Any ideas? I'm thinking about doing a forged rotating assy to spin to 7400-7500 and also bumping the compression when I do so by fly-cutting the pistons and having heads decked a bit...
Callaway intake
100mm MAF
NW 102
Fast 102
56# injectors
OE rotating assy
PRC stage 2.5 heads
288/291 .605/.610 111LSA cam
Johnson short travels
Yella Terra Roller rockers
3/8" pushrods
1-3/4" LT's
high flow catted X
Borla stingers
graph was still climbing at 7k - barely, but was climbing...
Any ideas? I'm thinking about doing a forged rotating assy to spin to 7400-7500 and also bumping the compression when I do so by fly-cutting the pistons and having heads decked a bit...
03-02-2016, 11:23 AM
#2
Safety Car
Been told by some of the best in the HOT ROD BIZ going over 7,000 for any extended period the old LS with stock rod bolts might go BOOM .. I have 505 FWHP tuned LMR I Houston .I'm done till I go into bottom end.. Good set of heads and the right cam I see no prom. going 500 Hp headers ETC.. Call Brain Tooly he builds lots 500 HP LS motors .. and has the parts for you to build one also..
03-02-2016, 11:41 AM
#3
Havent gone over 7k and dont plan to until its forged. 500fwhp isnt too tough to break, but seems like getting that to the tire is a sticking point for a lot of people (and still have the car drivable on the street).
I will try giving brian a call and get his opinion too!
thanks!
I will try giving brian a call and get his opinion too!
thanks!
03-02-2016, 01:19 PM
#4
Safety Car
Havent gone over 7k and dont plan to until its forged. 500fwhp isnt too tough to break, but seems like getting that to the tire is a sticking point for a lot of people (and still have the car drivable on the street).
I will try giving brian a call and get his opinion too!
thanks!
I will try giving brian a call and get his opinion too!
thanks!
03-02-2016, 01:34 PM
#5
Most are going with the power adders to get there that would be just a cam motor with 500 RWHP on the street ,it would take somebody wi th some know now to do that and make sure its right .I said that about brain he has build motors and has parts and the big deal is he knows what will work or not there are others out there am sure ..What I like about Brian he just cuts to the chase and this is what will work or not try to sell a over kill you on parts.. I friend has C-5 04 with 427 camed headers bolt ons and WOW.I can't remember the number over 500 at wheels sounds BAD.. NO power adders..just motor..
I want to do a 427 for my car so bad, but I cannot justify that price when I'm trying to get a SCCA/NASA race car... But damn do they sound ridiculous! lol
03-02-2016, 01:42 PM
#6
Safety Car
The 427 is BAD for sure I was there when he hands the guy $12,000 cash for the 427 still in wrappers $12,000 not bad price the dealership was going out of BIZ some small place out the woods ,been in it blinding for sure.. Good luck..
03-02-2016, 02:58 PM
#7
Thank you. My "427" build would be a 427 desroked a little to turn more RPM - 8k rpm and 600hp or so - definitely a large sticker price, but it would sound a lot better than my little 346 at 7k! lol
I will have to update this thread when I find how to crack the 500 mark. I'm thinking a varvaram and a leaf blower...? jk - thinking maybe 1-7/8 headers actually...
I will have to update this thread when I find how to crack the 500 mark. I'm thinking a varvaram and a leaf blower...? jk - thinking maybe 1-7/8 headers actually...
03-03-2016, 06:09 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
My current cam only setup makes over 500 WHP .
There's alot of impressive builds out there to check out. Look in c5z and Performance sections.
I'm convinced 575whp is possible withe stock bottom end and there's a discussion on it.
There's alot of impressive builds out there to check out. Look in c5z and Performance sections.
I'm convinced 575whp is possible withe stock bottom end and there's a discussion on it.
Last edited by robz; 03-03-2016 at 06:14 PM.
03-03-2016, 07:54 PM
#10
I'm having a nightmare of a time getting this thing to idle correctly... Keeps wanting to die...
Starting to consider the LS7 MAF as the issue
03-03-2016, 10:41 PM
#12
Why is it that I'm so far from 500 then...? I should be over 500 I feel like??
What should I do differently then ya think?
Last edited by nskyline34; 03-03-2016 at 10:52 PM.
03-04-2016, 08:19 AM
#15
Le Mans Master
A car can have high peak horsepower numbers and not perform particularly well.
That being said, you are very close. The way you make dyno numbers are with stock gears, lightweight clutch, lightweight drivetrain, light tires and rims, decreasing windage and resistance, etc.
The way you make a fast car with a 346 is rpm from a stable valvetrain and designing a setup that all works together and efficient in the rpm band you will be racing in. You can then apply some of the tricks you learned from the dyno sessions to boost your power output.
That's why I always say don't get caught up in the dyno numbers and keep in mind no two dyno are the same and they can be easily manipulated. Your car seems fast, enjoy it. You can easily make it peak over 500 but that doesn't guarantee it will perform better.
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ajrothm (03-05-2016)
03-04-2016, 08:27 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
And just to add, as mentioned already, you want to make sure all parts can handle the rpm you throw at it.
Reliability does go down the higher you spin it but the stock parts can handle a bit more than some people think. For sure we take calculated risks all the time.
An easy and cheap way to pickup some hp to to have a Tony Mamo port your intake and TB.
Reliability does go down the higher you spin it but the stock parts can handle a bit more than some people think. For sure we take calculated risks all the time.
An easy and cheap way to pickup some hp to to have a Tony Mamo port your intake and TB.
03-04-2016, 09:45 AM
#17
And just to add, as mentioned already, you want to make sure all parts can handle the rpm you throw at it.
Reliability does go down the higher you spin it but the stock parts can handle a bit more than some people think. For sure we take calculated risks all the time.
An easy and cheap way to pickup some hp to to have a Tony Mamo port your intake and TB.
Reliability does go down the higher you spin it but the stock parts can handle a bit more than some people think. For sure we take calculated risks all the time.
An easy and cheap way to pickup some hp to to have a Tony Mamo port your intake and TB.
I want to go forged to turn 7500+ (road racing)
For light weight roller rockers what do you suggest? Or is there no such thing?? Haha
Also adding LS3 valves - what is different about them vs my SS ones from PRC?
Already putting together another build sheet...and my car isn't even done being tuned yet lol
03-04-2016, 10:03 AM
#18
Safety Car
Making big HP with a LS motor is easy the hard part as I see it is the hook up part the wheels braking loose at 140 MPH not fun and way hard on the seat it the pucker deal ..Just saying..
03-04-2016, 10:21 AM
#20
Le Mans Master
What do you think is max for bottom end? I was thinking 7200 was max 'safely' so I went conservative to 7k.
It depends on the racing you are doing and the how often you will be at high rpms. Over 7K is pushing it in any venue but if you have a stout valvetrain I believe the SBE can handle moderate doses of 7000+ plus rpms that are not sustained for long intervals.
For example, I've run 5 different setups on the drag strip with the stock bottom end to ranges of 7100-7600rpms without incident.
But I typically only rev the car out when the car is sorted, the air is conducive to a great pass, or in a competition when necessary. This may equate to only 15-20 passes a year. So, for sure it's a risk but somewhat calculated. I spoke with a guy who spun his ls1 to 7500+ rpms for over 100 drag strip passes before it let go, and that was a connecting rod body failure. Also, I think rod bolts do add a measure of insurance.
I want to go forged to turn 7500+ (road racing)
For light weight roller rockers what do you suggest? Or is there no such thing?? Haha
Yella terra ultra lights are fine (we ran them 10 years ago with success and people following suite seemed to do well also).
Stock rockers with the trunion upgrade perform well at high rpm also
Also adding LS3 valves - what is different about them vs my SS ones from PRC?
That's a question for experts like Brian T, Tony Mamo, and others.
Already putting together another build sheet...and my car isn't even done being tuned yet lol
I'd focus on one thing at a time. I'd get that car tuned so it perfectly drivable. If you have to get involved and assist the tuner then so be it. I wouldn't doubt that there's more left on the table at WOT too. Get it right and enjoy the car for a while. It sounds like a strong setup that needs to be fine tuned overall. Once you get things sorted then add a few new pieces to the mix but not before.
And don't consider it a "max-effort" build as there is so much more to those builds that we all can learn.
It depends on the racing you are doing and the how often you will be at high rpms. Over 7K is pushing it in any venue but if you have a stout valvetrain I believe the SBE can handle moderate doses of 7000+ plus rpms that are not sustained for long intervals.
For example, I've run 5 different setups on the drag strip with the stock bottom end to ranges of 7100-7600rpms without incident.
But I typically only rev the car out when the car is sorted, the air is conducive to a great pass, or in a competition when necessary. This may equate to only 15-20 passes a year. So, for sure it's a risk but somewhat calculated. I spoke with a guy who spun his ls1 to 7500+ rpms for over 100 drag strip passes before it let go, and that was a connecting rod body failure. Also, I think rod bolts do add a measure of insurance.
I want to go forged to turn 7500+ (road racing)
For light weight roller rockers what do you suggest? Or is there no such thing?? Haha
Yella terra ultra lights are fine (we ran them 10 years ago with success and people following suite seemed to do well also).
Stock rockers with the trunion upgrade perform well at high rpm also
Also adding LS3 valves - what is different about them vs my SS ones from PRC?
That's a question for experts like Brian T, Tony Mamo, and others.
Already putting together another build sheet...and my car isn't even done being tuned yet lol
I'd focus on one thing at a time. I'd get that car tuned so it perfectly drivable. If you have to get involved and assist the tuner then so be it. I wouldn't doubt that there's more left on the table at WOT too. Get it right and enjoy the car for a while. It sounds like a strong setup that needs to be fine tuned overall. Once you get things sorted then add a few new pieces to the mix but not before.
And don't consider it a "max-effort" build as there is so much more to those builds that we all can learn.