Help! I'm at my wits end!!!
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
Help! I'm at my wits end!!!
I just installed a new fuel pump, and a new fuel filter today. Added 5 gals. of gas with no leaks. Turned the key on but didn't try to start but to allow the pump to pressurize the lines. I did that three times. Next tried to start it, but it fired and died. Start and die, start and die! This continued on till I finally ran the battery down. Now I'm wondering did I get a bad pump or a bad filter. Something else maybe??? Anyway to eliminate one over the other? Suggestions to were to go from here?
Pro
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 620
Likes: 18
From: Travelers Rest, SC
Understood, his issue reminded me of a problem my cousin had with her Grand Prix where it wou start and immediately died. She was using the key that didn't have the chip in it, used the right key and all was good.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
Waiting for fuel pressure gauge to get here
I just ordered a fuel pressure gauge and will give you an answer ASAP. My feelings at this point is that it acts like it is just getting enough fuel to fire, but not enough to keep running. Is there a way to test the pump from the pump itself, rather than through the filter to isolate the two? I'm I right in thinking that the fuel filter also regulates the fuel pressure?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
I don't see how that would be possible on the fuel filter, since all three lines are different. Now the fuel pump has two of it's lines that could be misplaced, but I was careful to avoid that when hooking it back up.
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Tech Contributor
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
I TOTALLY AGREE! 
Reading and posting a current set of DTCs is ALWAYS an excellent troubleshooting first step. However, You ran the battery down so,,, you may have a lot of old power related History DTCs that will just add confusion to what needs to be looked at.
Fully Charge the battery! Clear ALL the DTCs!!! Try to crank and start the engine. If and when it fails, WITHOUT turning OFF the IGNITION,,, immediately read the new DTCs.
Post up what you see.
On a second note.. See if you can hold the ignition switch to the START position and instead of releasing the key as soon as the engine runs, HOLD it in the CRANK position long enough to see if the engine continues to RUN in that position. If it does, release the key to the run position and see if it then dies.
I have a theory but need that info to tell you what to do next.
Bill
Reading and posting a current set of DTCs is ALWAYS an excellent troubleshooting first step. However, You ran the battery down so,,, you may have a lot of old power related History DTCs that will just add confusion to what needs to be looked at.Fully Charge the battery! Clear ALL the DTCs!!! Try to crank and start the engine. If and when it fails, WITHOUT turning OFF the IGNITION,,, immediately read the new DTCs.
Post up what you see.
On a second note.. See if you can hold the ignition switch to the START position and instead of releasing the key as soon as the engine runs, HOLD it in the CRANK position long enough to see if the engine continues to RUN in that position. If it does, release the key to the run position and see if it then dies.
I have a theory but need that info to tell you what to do next.
Bill
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,804
Likes: 358
From: Northville, MI
Years ago I had a similar issue, start but not run, and it turned out to be the 2mph cut off. I have a 6-speed if that makes any difference. Had the 2mph changed to 240 mph and it started and ran fine ever since.
1/4 mile/AutoX
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,442
Likes: 2,189
From: Buffalo Texas
That was my train of thought, when my lock message came on I would no more start letting out the clutch and it would die. I thought if he had the fuel system open and not a full battery, it would stall because of the shutoff ??
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
QUOTE"
Lack of fuel to keep running or loss of electrical to the electronics that control the running of the engine are the most like culprits..........
That was my whole train of thought but, I didn't just want to JUMP directly to a faulty ignition switch without doing a simple little TEST.
HOLDING the switch to the START position, disconnects some internal ignition switch contact and closes other ones. ALSO, the BCM supplies fuel pump RUN in the crank position differently than it does when you have it in the RUN position.
If you can keep the engine running in the CRANK POSITION, tells me A LOT!
BC
Lack of fuel to keep running or loss of electrical to the electronics that control the running of the engine are the most like culprits..........
That was my whole train of thought but, I didn't just want to JUMP directly to a faulty ignition switch without doing a simple little TEST.
HOLDING the switch to the START position, disconnects some internal ignition switch contact and closes other ones. ALSO, the BCM supplies fuel pump RUN in the crank position differently than it does when you have it in the RUN position.
If you can keep the engine running in the CRANK POSITION, tells me A LOT!
BC
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,144
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From: Panhandle FL
I have a buddy that has been in business for over 20 years. You would be amazed at how many BRAND NEW parts are defective. He sees it all the time with electrical parts. All the new parts come from China or Mexico and the parts houses don't care.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
Busy day here today, will get codes tomorrow.
QUOTE"
Lack of fuel to keep running or loss of electrical to the electronics that control the running of the engine are the most like culprits..........
That was my whole train of thought but, I didn't just want to JUMP directly to a faulty ignition switch without doing a simple little TEST.
HOLDING the switch to the START position, disconnects some internal ignition switch contact and closes other ones. ALSO, the BCM supplies fuel pump RUN in the crank position differently than it does when you have it in the RUN position.
If you can keep the engine running in the CRANK POSITION, tells me A LOT!
BC
Lack of fuel to keep running or loss of electrical to the electronics that control the running of the engine are the most like culprits..........
That was my whole train of thought but, I didn't just want to JUMP directly to a faulty ignition switch without doing a simple little TEST.
HOLDING the switch to the START position, disconnects some internal ignition switch contact and closes other ones. ALSO, the BCM supplies fuel pump RUN in the crank position differently than it does when you have it in the RUN position.
If you can keep the engine running in the CRANK POSITION, tells me A LOT!
BC
I will try your suggestion tomorrow as well as getting the codes. Maybe if I explain better to everyone how my car is acting. Starting from day one when it quit starting.
First off let me tell you that the car only has a little over 8000 miles. Always fired right up with little turning over of the engine. I pulled it out in the driveway to clean out the garage and when I tried to start it again to pull it back in. It would only turn over with sometime firing, but that's it.
I just replaced the fuel pump/with sending unit and also went ahead and replaced the fuel filter. Added 5 gals of gas turned the key to on but not start and waited and did that again several times to allow the fuel line to fill up. Turned the switch to start and it fired but quickly died. The more times I tried to start it. The less it seemed to want to start and would act like it didn't even want to fire. Just crank and maybe fire occasionally but nothing else. After running the battery down I gave up and put a charger overnight. This morning I tried again but after it fired on the first turn. It went back to mostly cranking! So rather than run the battery down again I gave up and ordered a fuel pressure gauge.
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so you had the same issue prior to replacing the pump and filter?... if that is correct there's a chance the old parts are in good working condition and the problem lies elsewhere, like the ignition switch that a couple of people are hinting at
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
QUOTE"
Lack of fuel to keep running or loss of electrical to the electronics that control the running of the engine are the most like culprits..........
That was my whole train of thought but, I didn't just want to JUMP directly to a faulty ignition switch without doing a simple little TEST.
HOLDING the switch to the START position, disconnects some internal ignition switch contact and closes other ones. ALSO, the BCM supplies fuel pump RUN in the crank position differently than it does when you have it in the RUN position.
If you can keep the engine running in the CRANK POSITION, tells me A LOT!
BC
Lack of fuel to keep running or loss of electrical to the electronics that control the running of the engine are the most like culprits..........
That was my whole train of thought but, I didn't just want to JUMP directly to a faulty ignition switch without doing a simple little TEST.
HOLDING the switch to the START position, disconnects some internal ignition switch contact and closes other ones. ALSO, the BCM supplies fuel pump RUN in the crank position differently than it does when you have it in the RUN position.
If you can keep the engine running in the CRANK POSITION, tells me A LOT!
BC
I haven't got to try your suggestion yet but hopefully will try today. Another thing that I haven't mentioned yet. Before I changed out the pump and filter. I depressed the schrader valve. There was little to no pressure. Leaving me to believe that te fuel pump was bad. Replacing it, I tried depressing it and found pressure, but without a gauge it's a guess on my part to tell you how much. One other thing I did that I fail to mention in this thread. I took a volt meter reading at the pump and only got around 4 volts. An answer I got in a separate thread was after 2 seconds the voltage drops from 12 volts. That would have happen in my case of working by myself.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
Funny you should mention that since the man who came out to work on my furnace yesterday said the same thing. He use to work for Autozone and went through 6 pumps on his own vehicle before putting an AC Delco one on. The pump I bought from them is a Spectra Premium. He said that I would have been better of buying a Delco! I wonder if you can bench test this pumps to at least know if they will work before you go through the trouble of putting them on!!!
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
As I stated at the start of this thread."I'm at my wits end" You may be right, and I'm just throwing money, time and effort trying to repair this myself. My wife keeps saying "Just have it towed to the dealership and get it fixed"
That may be the final results, but I hate to give up! I will check the codes and post those later on. Also I will do a fuel pressure test and let you guys know the results of that. If all else fails and I end up having to have it towed to the dealership.
I will post those findings as well to all the great guys who have taken time to respond to this thread.