I got a new battery a few days ago but it's defective and won't charge properly. In diagnosing whether it's the battery or excessive current drain all of a sudden in my car, I discovered I seem to have about a 280-290ma draw on my battery after the car sits for 15-20 min, and relay #37 in the passenger footwell is quite warm initially on opening the fusebox and stays quite warm after all the lights go out. Is this normal or should it cool off if the computer shuts off the lights? I was trying to remove it/pull it out of its' socket, but it doesn't want to budge - I wanted to see if removing it would drop the current drain. Is there some method or trick to remove these mini relays or do I just have to pull harder?
Also, in attaching a wire from the neg battery cable to my VOM, there is a clicking from under the passenger fender and a rapid buzzing from one of the relays in the passenger footwell which lasts until a secure connection is made and then stops, and I can't find out so far which one it is coming from. My headlights work fine, up and down. This may also happen when I re-hook up the neg cable to the battery where you may get a spark or two until you get the cable bolt threaded in. Any significance to this or is this just a byproduct of making and breaking and making connections until it's secured?

 

 

I got it out and you really do have to PULL HARD.
I passed by the NAPA store and got a replacement relay just 'cause mine stayed hot and my thinking maybe it was bad and causing my slightly high battery drain - those things are pricey at $20 (with a 3 year warranty). and still the new one stays warm after all the lights shut off, but doesn't feel as hot as the old one. Now after 15-20 min my parasitic drain came down a little to 220ma. If I pull the relay it goes down a bit more to 190 and it I put it back in it goes back up. Is that normal, is the computer supposed to be energizing that all the time just waiting for a door to open or something to trigger on the lights? Or is the computer supposed to be silent until it gets a signal from a door or something else to energize the relay and turn the lights on? Why should that relay stay warm, or do I have to wait longer than 20 min for it to cool off? I had the underhood light disconnected, would that give an erroneous signal to the computer? That should have been turned off in 15 min anyway.
Can I live with a 200ma draw if I don't drive the car for a week or two or will my battery poop out by then?
BTW, my recently purchased battery was defective and was replaced by Walmart after testing it on their machine and trying to charge it. I don't think my 290ma battery draw killed it, it was just bad and wouldn't accept a charge.
I think I'm reading my meter right - on the 10A scale it reads ~6 to start out, then after about 10 min drops to 3, then over another few min. goes down to 0.22, That's 220 ma right?

 

I have read all of Bill's and all your posts on this and have pulled every fuse one at a time except the three or so that go to the BCM, and pulled the relays for the lights, seats, and various motors, and everything else I could pull out - those suckers are really hard to remove. That new relay 37 I just replaced still stays pretty warm for over 5 min after the lights all shut off. My VOM reads 310 ma with the relay in, 150-160 ma if I pull it out. There are no lights, radio, Bose speakers, rear defroster, seat motors. headlight motors, other accessories, or anything else I can find on and nothing changes when I pull fuses. Is there something wrong with my BCM to be keeping relay 37 energized after the lights shut off or do I have to wait even longer?
I also have confirmed the drain is related to the passenger footwell fuse panel because the drain goes to O if I disconnect it from terminal B.
So any other suggestions to find this leak? I may just have to buy a solar charger and leave it on the dash plugged in to my cigarette lighter to prevent getting a dead battery if I can't find the source. I've never had a dying battery before in the 5 years I've had this car and sometimes the car was not driven for a few weeks at a time and always started and ran fine, The voltage was never a problem as far as I know, but now I check it every day or two before starting it and it's a little low at ~12-12,2V on the DIC and drops to 11.9 when starting, which is OK, and immediately charges up at 14.2-14.4V, then settles down after a minute or two to 13.8-14 as the battery comes up.
Give me another suggestion of how to find this. Thanks.

 

Subscribed for the chilling conclusion to this puzzler.

This is more exciting than Murder She Wrote!

 

Have done every one of those things.and the battery voltage at the battery terminals reads 12.3-4V in the AM with hood light off and disconnected, from the overnight drain. I am aware of the voltage drop read inside the car, t's usually at least 0.3-0.5 V higher at the battery terminals than inside. I don't open either door, there is no key inside the switch, I leave the hood unlatched and just open it. Then I read battery voltage directly.
I have checked the dimmer switch, the rear defroster switch, the radio, the AC and fan, the headlights and fog lights, and every other switch I can find. The glove box and all interior lights are off. My radar detector power wire plugged into the mirror is disconnected from the unit itself. The current draw reads the same with that wire tapped into the back of the mirror or not, so I can't see that as a cause. Other than connect that lead a few weeks ago I have done nothing to the car.
I will reconnect my VOM again tomorrow and get you a pic. I wish I was reading it wrong.
On my meter with the amp setting on the 10A scale, when I first hook it up in series between the neg cable and neg battery terminal, I initially get 6+ A, then 10-15 min later it drops to 3A, the slowly over a few min down to 0.28-0.31A or so. Pulling the hot #37 then drops it down to the lower level.
And would you know why that relay stays hot, which I assume means energized, after the BCM turns off the lights? That's a new relay, and both the original and new one stay warm after the lights go out.
I haven't checked for any draw from the alternator yet, I will try to do that tommorow.

 

charging voltage

AC voltage measurement
Carpet never wet, no battery leaks, etc. in the footwell. Car kept under a carport out of the weather.
Relay 44 is not warm, only the one for the courtesy lights (forgot the number) and 37, which stays warm for a long while after the lights go off.
Why do the lights stay on after you pull fuse 2?
Like I said, nothing changes with the parasitic draw if I pull the pins for the radar wire out of the mirror and totally disconnect it.

I tested my alternator today to see if there was a draw from bad diodes, and the diode test was normal, 560mv flow out one way, 0 in the other way. No current flowing from the B+ terminal to the disconnected hot red wire leading to the battery. What I did find was an AC current of 31V with a charging current at the time of 14.63V at the battery and at the alternator when I ran the car for a few min. Why that? Shouldn't be that high but the charging system works fine. That reading is only with the red VOM lead on the + battery post, black on the - post. If you switch the leads around, the reading is 0V. Makes no sense to me but that means nothing.

And again like I said, I've made sure every switch is off, pulled every fuse, and cannot get the drain less than 280ma. I think a solar oanel left on the dash is my easiest solution. Easier than plugging and unplugging from the wall.

Attached are pics of the voltage during charging and the AC current measurement, if it means anything. The current drain measurement with the red lead inthe 10A socket and rthe meter set to the 10A mark reads 0.28, so that's 280ma.

 

I thank you for all your help, both you and Bill are the electrical gurus and have been invaluable to this forum I will try and contact Bill by PM.

 

Just to throw this into the discussion, in my 17 years of installing car audio back in the day, I learned on more than one occasion to consider the possibility that someone before me had modified something in the car and the modification was now causing a strange problem. Unless you are certain that nothing in the car has been changed to be different than it came from the factory, a failed modification or repair can occasionally be the cause of a new problem. When I'm troubleshooting electrical problems and can't get to a logical conclusion, it sometimes helps to just start over at the beginning and I occasionally discover that I've missed something along the way, or a fresh look carries me down a new troubleshooting path I did not consider before. Everything in the car is fused somehow or somewhere, and you should be able to pull fuses until the current draw disappears to narrow this down to a single system or circuit or module.

 

No additions or mods to this car that I know of, except mine - front and rear cameras, LED backup lights, HID headlights and fogs, and have had no problems with anything in the years and months since they were done.
I've done the pulling of fuses and relays three times so far and checked out the alternator, still haven't been able to find the drain.

 

Area of light illuminating the tab

closeup of tab and locknut
I talked to Bill Curlee a couple of days ago and went over this whole thing again. I redid the fuse and relay pulling 2 more times and still get an end result of 290 ma current draw. Bill suggested I remove the BCM and open it ,looking for whitish discoloration due to corrosion on a contact or two related to atmospheric moisture down here in FL (BCM has never been wet, carpet is not moist, etc).
I attempted to bite the bullet and do that today, but now I have another little problem - just can't seem to catch a break with this.
When I go to remove the locknut on the tab on the bottom of the BCM to remove it, it just turns and turns, like the head of the bolt embedded in the plastic or however it's held, is turning without the head being held tight so that the nut can be removed. Pics are attached to show what I'm talking about. Any suggestions as to how to remove that nut? Cutting the plastic and later reattaching it with JB Weld or similar? I'm not even sure anything will stick to that plastic. Cutting the aluminum tab? Then how do I reattach it to hold it in place? Does that screw or bolt have a hex head on it that maybe I could grab and hold with a small wrench if I could get one behind there ? I need some suggestions, and thanks.

 

Thanks, again 8vette7 to the rescue.
I put that LMC5 in 5 years ago and obviously never remembered how that ground wire was attached via that bolt. Looking at it today I thought that affixed the BCM to the car.
Now I will now go and remove the BCM from my car and open it up for a peek.

 

#1 Corrosion or salt (white material at the lower left corner of the relay)

#2 Blowup of pic 1

#3 Corrosion or salt at lower right of relay

Blowup of pic 3

Pic 1 cleaned

Pic 3 cleaned

Latest amp draw after reassembly - 30 ma
FIXED IT!
Removed my BCM and then spoke to Bill again about how to open it, and there were 2 small areas of white corrosion or maybe salty deposits on it - see pics. It immediately dissolved or wiped away with some alcohol on a toothbrush and a Q-tip, Again, see pics. I put it all back together and reinstalled it in he car, and low and behold, it started, no codes or anything unusual, I just had to reset my key fobs which took 10 secs. Then I measured my battery draw again, and it's now 0.03 A, or 30ma. See the pic, Actually, the meter bounces back and forth between 0.02 and 0.03 A, so I am quite happy now.
This forum is pretty amazing, and I cannot thank 8vette7 and Bill Curlee enough. It's also quite amazing that that little bit of crud (? salt) on the circuit board could cause the BCM to cause my battery drain by not shutting off something due to a shorted circuit or whatever it did.
It's not hard to open the BCM, just be aware that you can do it just so many times 'till the aluminum hinges fatigue and crack. Be gentle. And you have to loosen that Allen screw on the back to remove the board from the case. In a really dry climate you should ground yourself to prevent a static discharge which could mess up the board.

This is all proof that you can accomplish anything with educating yourself, persistence, and help from friends and those with more knowledge, and that they can pass it on to you. And it feels good when can you solve a problem. Just do it. Thanks again.

 

LOL!!! I'm very happy that you were successful. Now,,, Lets keep it from happening again. The BCM was exposed to moisture at some time in the past. Most likely due to a HVAC Air Box condensate flood back problem.
The HVAC Air Box has a single drain that exits the fire wall on the passengers side in the area just below the passengers side head. It has a small rubber 90 deg boot on it and that allows the condensate to drip onto the ground. The end of that boot has a thin slit that allows water to leak out but retains the air in the air box. That end can become stuck shut, clogged with slime or trash. The drain path drain tube can also become clogged

The best way to fix that issue is to remove the boot ( it just slips off the tube) and either:

1 Make sure that it's free to drain condensate.
2. Snip the end off a bit to allow it to flow better.
3. Always look to see if you have some condensate under the car when you operate the AC on warm humid days. If you don't see some water, that drain path isn't allowing the condensate out. The only other way it gets out is to leak out of the hvac fan opening into the passengers foot well on the BCM.

Another note: There is a small 1/2" rubber hose that connects the HVAC Fan Motor to the air box. That hose allows cool fresh air into the fan motor. That hose can and will condensate on the outside and drip water onto the BCM when you have the AC on. I wrapped mine in some bubble wrap just to keep the air off of it co it doesn't sweat.