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Mine is doing the same thing, swapped ignition switch,checked all grounds, relays, even took the TAC unit out along with the PCM, opened the pcm looked for any burn place on board looked fine. I put it back into the car and thought let me try it again and it started up. it idled for about 20 mins I turned it off and restarted it ran another 15-20 mins and I moved other vehicles out of the way got it off jack stands and drove around the block. Next morning got up went out and it cranked and ran bout 10 mins I moved it about 15 feet and put it in park and it died and went back to doing what it was doing. I know I put 12v to the fuel pump connector in the driver side wheel well before and car would crank fine. But car doesn't prime when ignition switch is first cut on. So I am very interested in seeing how this turns out mine has been down 18 months now.
So my question is how come it will crank with 12v to the fuel pump connector and run, and why after putting the pcm back in it cranked and ran and even moved under its own power and then all of a sudden go back to spinning over and no crank.?
Can you be a little more specific when you say “spinning over and no crank”...spinning over to me means it’s CRANKING(engine rotating)...by “no crank” do you mean a “ NO START” ????....have you checked the LOAD side of the fuel pump relay...pin 86 ??...with key ON and while CRANKING ??
OK it spins over but does not crank, might is like above no signal to fuel pump when u first turn key on so it doesn't prime, its so many things just like the original post.so something in my mind I am thinking it is not getting a signal to fuel pump. But as I mentioned before I took the pcm and tac out and put it back in and it ran and drove, then back to nothing. I mean it turns over but doesn't fire up cause no fuel.so something is keeping the fuel pump from coming on.
OK it spins over but does not crank, might is like above no signal to fuel pump when u first turn key on so it doesn't prime, its so many things just like the original post.so something in my mind I am thinking it is not getting a signal to fuel pump. But as I mentioned before I took the pcm and tac out and put it back in and it ran and drove, then back to nothing. I mean it turns over but doesn't fire up cause no fuel.so something is keeping the fuel pump from coming on.
OK, just to get the terminology correct...you have a “cranking no start”...do you have a 12v test light or multimeter ??...if you can’t hear the fuel pump prime for 2 seconds but the pump runs when you apply 12 volts directly to the pump you might have issues with the pump relay circuit...if you want I or someone else here can run you through the testing procedure !!..good luck!!
I have already done a lot of the same as Dave Mitchell has because most of what he has done is basically the same as I have done. At the relay side I can't use jumper wire cause I get nothing, I feel it is in the security part VATS somewhere. If I knew someone that really knew more than me that I could take it to I would in a minute, But the area I live in I don't trust to many to work on it. I had the 04 since 2007 its had two motors and driveline done and never had any type of problem like this. it was my daily driver now its my driveway blocker.
Last edited by 04tripleblkcoupe; 01-21-2019 at 08:23 PM.
I have already done a lot of the same as Dave Mitchell has because most of what he has done is basically the same as I have done. At the relay side I can't use jumper wire cause I get nothing, I feel it is in the security part VATS somewhere. If I knew someone that really knew more than me that I could take it to I would in a minute, But the area I live in I don't trust to many to work on it. I had the 04 since 2007 its had two motors and driveline done and never had any type of problem like this. it was my daily driver now its my driveway blocker.
You should be able to jumper pins 87 and 30 which is the load side of the fuel pump circuit to make the pump run with key ON...if it DOES NOT run...first is the fuel pump fuse #13 not blown ??...if good with a test light or multimeter do you have power at pin 87 with key ON ?...with the test light do you have 12 volts at pin 86 with key turned ON...if you use a test light the light will come on for 2 seconds and go out...the multimeter will continue to show 12 volts because it is a “power side switched” circuit with a bias voltage on it when the relays is removed but don’t worry about that right now...now connect 12 volt test light to battery POSITIVE to check the 2 ground circuits (30/85) of the relay...when probing pin 85 the light will come on if the control side ground is good through G105...same test light check at pin 30...the ground is through the fuel pump windings to G401 which is the body ground behind the left rear tire.
EDIT: when the car cranks but does not start does the tach move at all while cranking ??
Yes, strange you don’t even get the fuel pump to prime !!...if you can access the PCM and back probe the crank sensor signal wire (dark blue/white) wire at pin 12 on the C1 connector take a test light connected to battery POSITIVE and with key ON touch the tip of the test light to that wire...you should hear the fuel pump come on...try that !!
C1-12 is fuel injector 4 control. C1-44 is crank sensor. Tried both with no reaction from fuel pump or fuel injector.
Last edited by Dave Mitchell; 01-23-2019 at 12:08 AM.
Reason: correction
Dave,
Just trying to put together all the pieces of your puzzle so far so......
1) you have no "spark" and no "injector pulse" and no RPM signal from your scan tool while cranking....SOUNDS LIKE A BAD CKP SENSOR OR WIRING ISSUE to me !!
2) P0606... Bad PCM ??....maybe ????
3) trying to figure out why the pump doesn't prime... it should even with a possible bad crank sensor.... you said the test light comes on for 2 seconds when the key is turned on (pump control feed) ??...correct ??...you did say the pump works jumping the load side of the relay
4) did you check the ground side of the relay (control side) ??....test light connected to battery POSITIVE probing the ground side....test light should come on bright...I like using an old headlight bulb (1.5 Amps) connected to battery +...if ground is good light will be bright !!
5) Now you should NOT have power to the fuel injector feed wire (pink) with key OFF...were ALL the injectors showing 11.8 volts with key OFF ?? ....if you remove the INJR1 or 2 fuse (based on 2001 wiring) which powers them do you lose power then ??....you might have thrown the P0351-0358 because of a possible short somewhere in that circuit...the INJR1 and 2 fuse feeds the injectors AND the coil packs !!...that has to be addressed !!
6) Now you said you have a scope...did you scope the signal wire (dark blue/white wire Pin 44 C1 connector) for a 0-12 volt square wave ??
7) if no crank signal you will have to remove the CKP sensor and check all 3 wires...power, signal, and ground...with the P0606 I'd check PCM power and grounds (key ON...less than 100 mv on ground side)...also do you have a 5 volt Ref. voltage at the MAF sensor YELLOW wire with key ON ??
Well that's all I have...you just have to do some investigating...if someone else has any ideas please chime in !!
Can someone look at the oscope output? This looks like a dead crank sensor to me but I am still learning. Anything I can do to verify? Red is CMP{ and Blue is CKP.
You need to zoom in with your scope if possible…you have a 24X crank and a 1X cam…below is a good cam/crank on an 01…the CMP should go to 12 volts…you only have 8 volts…the cam and crank sensors share a 12 volt reference…check voltage on both and see if you see 12 volts…my CMP does go to 12 vokts but can’t been seen…I will have to find one.
01-21-2019, 04:30 PM
