Hello Guys,
I'm having a streak of **** days and I'd like to have something interesting to talk about to cheer me up a bit. This won't happen before at least 2 seasons, but I'll still keep the notes and revisit when I actually do these upgrades. If you have a couple minutes to waste or want to talk about engines because you like it, I would appreciate it, but do not feel obliged to answer.

I have a 2002 C5z that I use for a street/lapping combo and I fancy the idea of eventually going full on racecar in the not-so-near future. Until then, I love driving this car, so I will be putting anywhere between 5-10k miles per season on it. Engine is stock aside of catch can and the RD/EoC radiator combo. I know I have other upgrades to do first, but I'd like to talk about engine and horsepower for now cuz that is way more fun than brakes and chassis.

I've seen a couple posts about doing a head/cam swap to get some more power. I've seen threads going on and on again but all the suggestions were aimed at people with different goals than I do, so its why I am starting a new thread here. I'd like not to fall in the same trap than I used to by putting way too much cam in the car.

Here is some information or criterias I would like to put in there. Feel free to tell me that my expectations are unrealistic.

1. I would like to eventually get a High RPM bald eagle screaming V8. If this happens, that won't be now, but if possible I'd like to be able to re-use the heads since those are usually quite expensive. Changing the cam in the future is not a problem.
2. I want to move the powerband up a little bit as the stock setup doesn't make that much more power beyond 5800 RPM.
3. I definitely want more chop. I used to have a 81' firebird with a 383 and a stupid cam in it. The idle was out of this world; I loved this car for that one reason. The car can be a pink rusty pile of crap, but if it sounds good, I'll love it anyway. Here is what my previous car idled like.
   
   You Tube
4. I want something that is still somewhat reliable. I already threw a rod in my 383, and I just don't have the kind of money required to rebuild an engine every 3 years.
5. While I expect worse gas mileage, I'd like to stay in the 20mpg highway as fuel is substantially more expensive in Quebec. I can get around 26-28 mpg currently.
6. The engine must be able to run on 91 octane; we do not have easy access to E85.
7. The engine must be still streetable and I want to retain the AC. However, I am fine dealing with a less-than-ideal combo (see notes below).
8. I will have a wideband installed in the car and will purchase HPtuners.
9. I will drive the car all the way down to 50 degrees ambient. I do not mind it being a bit hard to start.
10. Obviously, I want more horsepower.

To give you some perspective, this cam was in my Trans am you see in the youtube video.

This was behind a garbage TH350 with 2.41 gear and a 3500RPM stall and stock 882 heads (the engine builder was a moron; this engine didn't make power at all). If the electric fan kicked in, the engine would stall and I would have to hold the throttle a little bit to keep it alive. I am totally fine dealing with this kind of compromise, especially if I get more powerband in the higher RPM and get meaner idle.

I am also fine upgrading things like headers, intake, throttle body and other if needed.

Thanks for your time!

 

I would recommend the CamMotion Titan 4. It is a very versatile cam and a close friend (we maintain our cars together) has run it in his '00 FRC with Z06 243 heads, FAST intake, Long tubes etc. The cam has been great with multiple track days on it.

http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/t...227-232-113-4/

 

Do you have any HP numbers? How was the fuel economy?

 

The cam is in the same range as the BTR stg 2 and numerous other ~228 cams. MPG? I'd expect a loss of ~2mpg. On my old F11 which was ground by CamMotion and according to them is very similar. I did 436rwhp/415rwtq, with TEA stg2 5.3 heads and a LS6 intake, gained mpg on the hwy and lost 2-3 around town with 3.42 gears. I drove rather aggressively on road trips and the cam allowed me to drop down to 5th rather than 4th to pass people. It pulled 30mpg Atlanta to Orlando and 27mpg on the return trip. Pump calculated not DIC.

We haven't dyno'd the Titan 4 yet but it picked up torque over the vindicator. I would expect for 415-425rwhp depending on dyno and supporting mods with the cam only running a FAST92/LS2 TB. Heads and a FAST should get you 450-465.

Keep the cam under ~230 degrees and gear at no more than 3.90s and you'll me surprised how good MPG can be with a 6 speed LS.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ct-on-mpg.html

 

Wow, cool. Thanks for the other thread, its exactly the kind of info I am looking for.

So, from what I understand, I could even keep the stock Z06 heads and just swap the cam with a tune? 415whp is a good gain from stock. I am already looking at long tube headers. Would just header/cam/tune still yield a decent upgrade? How about swapping the TB but not the intake?

Also, since I already have a LS6, should I go for the recommended Hardened Chromoly Pushrods specified on the cam page?

I do not plan to change the rearend gear as it is perfect for my usage; very good MPG considering the car, and with my tire combo, I have a hard time doing a burnout. More gear would just spin the tires and reduce MPG.

By the way, thanks for your time, I appreciate it.

 

Agree on the 228 cams. My C5 made 397WHP and 400WTQ on a .585/.585/228/230/112LSA cam with LS6 intake, 1-3/4 offroad headers, and stock 853 heads. I went with this cam because of price, track record, and lift was below .600 which I preferred due to less valvetrain stress and still managed to surpass my expecations. I hear similar praise on other 228 cams.

 

If you are going to swap the TB at least go for a Dorman LS2 intake or TPIS LS6 with 90mm snout. I would and have picked up used FAST92 and LS2 TBs. A FAST 102 may run into cowl clearance, the Dorman LS2 requires some mods to the intake. A stock LS6 intake may go down to 400rwhp. Dynos can vary greatly.

If you are going to do heads and cam, I'd do a C5R timing chain, oil pump (Melling standard volume/high pressure) , Morel Drop In lifters, pushrods measured for your build. I believe Summit and Brian Tooley offer 11/32" pushrods. The larger diameter pushrod the less deflection, Vettenuts had a good topic on this. A good set of Long Tubes, I am in the 1 3/4" primary camp for a torque oriented street build. Kooks or ARH get my vote for headers. GM head gaskets and a bushed trunion upgrade such as Straub.

Read and Research options, use Google to search Ls1tech and here.

 

The thing is, I would eventually do a complete motor job. Going for a high RPM build with a solid roller cam and a much higher redline. But that would be the last step, once I have fully covered the chassis, brakes, suspension, etc. and the car would become a trailer queen at the end of my long term project.

I just want a simple and not too expensive upgrade that would give some more chop and a bit more torque in the higher RPM range. If I can leave the heads on the engine, it means a lot less money spend on them (heads are not cheap in canada) and a simpler job.

What would be the gain with the lifters? My car is still fairly low mileage (50k miles) if that matters. Also, would the larger pushrods be heavier and be harder on the valvetrain?

The trunion kit, timing chain and the oil pump are a good idea since I track the car quite often. I'll keep that in mind.

 

What you want out of your engine is what I got out of mine with a BTR Stage 2 cam and ported 243 (LS6) heads. 440rwhp 380 tq. 1 3/4 long tube headers, stock LS6 intake and TB...a large TB or intake might net a bit more HPs up top.

Mine makes power to 7k RPMs and absolutely rips. VERY streetable and works great for the intended purpose of more power up high...but doesn't sacrifice too much down low. Only thing you'd be disappointed with on this cam is the lope at idle...113LSA is a bit of a lope, but nothing too crazy. Lower LSA means more chop...the cam you referenced had a 110LSA. Lower LSA does tend to bring the power band down though, so you need to consider that balance.

Considering your desire to keep the car streetable, I wouldn't go much bigger than BTR Stage 2 or Titan 4 or the like. Bigger cams will shift the power band further up, but reduce streetability. It's also really important that you find a good tuner who really knows what they're doing. If doing it all over again, I kind of wish I had found a tuner first and worked with them to spec the cam I wanted. Tuning is really the most important aspect of the build IMO...it's the difference between the car screaming and running like garbage.

 

Yea... I was hoping to do the tuning myself. Good reliable mechanics that know what they are talking about are not exactly a thing here. I've had to rework certain jobs some garage did on my car. I've gone through 3 different garages in the last 7 years or so, and really, I am getting to a point where everything will be done by me.

 

I like your style.

Have you tuned a car before? It's pretty complex, but obviously not impossible. I wasn't 100% pleased with the job my tuners did, so I bought HP Tuners myself and tweaked from there. I've got it pretty well dialed in at this point, but it's taken a lot of time.

Starting from scratch would be tough if you haven't tuned a car before.

 

LOL same here man. Just purchased an HP Tuners MPVI to polish some of the driveability on mine. I've heard great things about the BTR Stage 2 and I was super close to buying it. In the end I went for the JEGS/Elgin Stage II cam instead because I liked the idea that lift was equal at .585 among both the intake cam lobe and exhaust cam lobe, and it was 112LSA which was what I looked for in terms of the idle chop quality.

 

Ohhh, I like the specs on that.

I think the BTR Stage 2 cam could benefit from a lower LSA...not just for the idle lope but also to shift the power band down just a tad. Less lift would be nice for valve train stability if tracking or something with sustained high RPM as well. And if I'm going to be hyper critical, I think the cam might allow a bit too much valvetrain noise...which might be reduced with less lift and exhaust duration like this cam.

 

I am an System administrator (the IT guy) and an electronic hobbyist. I've tuned my Street Demon way better than the two garages that tried ever did. 3 months before that, carburetors were voodoo magic for me. I had this thing dialed to a perfect 14.5 AFR under cruise, 12.8 under WOT and somewhat decent throttle response (the carb wasn't a good fit for my stall/rear end ratio) and 21 HG of vacuum at idle and I picked up 6 MPG. If I can figure out how this ancient tech worked, I doubt some maps will scare me. Incremental changes, save, stay safe with more fuel and less advance and move up slowly.

I don't expect to be a pro tuner anytime soon, but my skills at google-fu are pretty sharp (after all, its my job ) and I am very good at diagnosing problems in complex systems (also my job).

I also have a decent understanding of how engines work in general, so a couple youtube videos, posts on this forum and the HP tuner one should get me going. I plan to work the tune on the stock engine before anyway. I absolutely do not mind taking a lot of time working on it.

Also, tuning has been something I have wanted to do myself for a long time.

I am a very pro 1st amendment type of guy. More noises is something I have no issues with.

Mufflers are evil censorship.

 

I think you want prap-prap, chop-chop, potato-potato, and vroom-vroom. Not tick-tick-tick-tick.

 

Please make a thread...or keep this one going as you learn to tune. I'd love to follow along and pick up any tips you learn along the way.

I agree re: noise...but valvetrain "sewing machine" noise can be a bit annoying. My car is on the upper end of tolerable for me, though I should probably just put a louder exhaust on it to overpower the sewing machine noise.

 

Exactly.

 

That is the only proper solution to this problem.

Bah, up to a certain point, I wouldn't mind the sound of a straight cut gear transmission (some do make noise without being ridiculously loud), or the manly whistle of a supercharger.

 

I like you.

 

I learned to tune on my 2005 Subaru, and I'm pretty sure anybody who is comfortable with math would have no trouble. But carburetors are still voodoo magic IMO. I'm far more comfortable tuning with tables of numbers. With carburetors I was always fighting interactions between jets, and fighting to get full throttle dialed in without screwing up part throttle, etc. Whereas if you have a table with airflow on one axis and RPM on the other axis, it's pretty obvious what each cell does.

Of course there are a lot more tables in a PCM than adjustments on a carb, but I still think it's easier overall.