Harmonic Balancer Install Woes
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 48
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From: Houston
Harmonic Balancer Install Woes
Hey all,
I'm putting my 5spd 02 C5Z back together after doing C5-R chain, chain dampner, oil pump, oil cooler, and AC work.
I've got an Innovator west standard diameter pulley I'm attempting to install. I can't seem to get it all the way seated. It appears to be half a belt rib from being all the way seated. I'm lubing the bore of the balancer and crank shaft.
I'm using an OEM brand balancer installer with a giant nut that presses through a bearing. In a few installation videos I've seen they don't seem to have too much trouble seating the balancer before switching to the final bolt and torquing that down. Now those videos featured a stock balancer, so I'm hoping that I'm simply dealing with tighter tolerances.
My current plan is to get a slightly better tool in the mail tomorrow - it should use all the threads in the crank. Then give it the beans on my torque wrench set to 250ft lbs.
Is there something I'm missing? I'm just trying to be careful not to blow the threads on the crank. If that doesn't work should I try boiling the HB in water?
Thanks
I'm putting my 5spd 02 C5Z back together after doing C5-R chain, chain dampner, oil pump, oil cooler, and AC work.
I've got an Innovator west standard diameter pulley I'm attempting to install. I can't seem to get it all the way seated. It appears to be half a belt rib from being all the way seated. I'm lubing the bore of the balancer and crank shaft.
I'm using an OEM brand balancer installer with a giant nut that presses through a bearing. In a few installation videos I've seen they don't seem to have too much trouble seating the balancer before switching to the final bolt and torquing that down. Now those videos featured a stock balancer, so I'm hoping that I'm simply dealing with tighter tolerances.
My current plan is to get a slightly better tool in the mail tomorrow - it should use all the threads in the crank. Then give it the beans on my torque wrench set to 250ft lbs.
Is there something I'm missing? I'm just trying to be careful not to blow the threads on the crank. If that doesn't work should I try boiling the HB in water?
Thanks
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it should go on fairly easy, how are you verifying that it is a half rib off?... without a laser tool it's hard to tell but you should feel considerable resistance in the tool when it is fully seated... did you happen to take a pic of the part number just to double check that the one you have isn't for a dry sump?
Last edited by StingrayRebel; Apr 30, 2020 at 10:18 PM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 48
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From: Houston
it should go on fairly easy, how are you verifying that it is a half rib off?... without a laser tool it's hard to tell but you should feel considerable resistance in the tool when it is fully seated... did you happen to take a pic of the part number just to double check that the one you have isn't for a dry sump?
I went and checked their website, the only thing odd is that I do have the blower hub... oh **** I might have the wrong crank seal on there as I'm using one from the gasket kit, not one from IW. Time to check!
Heel & Toe
Joined: Apr 2020
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Try heating it up, when I did mine I stuck a heat gun on low in the hole on the balancer, and watched it for about 10 minutes right until it started smoking, I ran it to the car and installed it with no issue. I used a powerbond ud10%
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the blower hub does require a new seal, the inner diameter is slightly larger to accept the larger hub but I don't think that would keep it from fully seating... hmmm, try removing the balancer and take the seal out and then try to press the balancer back on and see what happens
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From: Houston
Yeah I had the wrong seal for sure. I found the right on in the box and put it on. You're right though, it didn't make much of a difference as far as seating goes. I'm going to go for the heat gun method in the morning.
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you can give it a shot, I have installed a handful of innovators balancers and they have all gone on easily without having to heat them up and if his is going on all but a half rib I don't know if heat will make much of a difference... I would guess there is another issue like something with the oil pump or crank gear (if it was changed) that is keeping the hub from fully seating
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Hey all,
I'm putting my 5spd 02 C5Z back together after doing C5-R chain, chain dampner, oil pump, oil cooler, and AC work.
I've got an Innovator west standard diameter pulley I'm attempting to install. I can't seem to get it all the way seated. It appears to be half a belt rib from being all the way seated. I'm lubing the bore of the balancer and crank shaft.
I'm using an OEM brand balancer installer with a giant nut that presses through a bearing. In a few installation videos I've seen they don't seem to have too much trouble seating the balancer before switching to the final bolt and torquing that down. Now those videos featured a stock balancer, so I'm hoping that I'm simply dealing with tighter tolerances.
My current plan is to get a slightly better tool in the mail tomorrow - it should use all the threads in the crank. Then give it the beans on my torque wrench set to 250ft lbs.
Is there something I'm missing? I'm just trying to be careful not to blow the threads on the crank. If that doesn't work should I try boiling the HB in water?
Thanks
I'm putting my 5spd 02 C5Z back together after doing C5-R chain, chain dampner, oil pump, oil cooler, and AC work.
I've got an Innovator west standard diameter pulley I'm attempting to install. I can't seem to get it all the way seated. It appears to be half a belt rib from being all the way seated. I'm lubing the bore of the balancer and crank shaft.
I'm using an OEM brand balancer installer with a giant nut that presses through a bearing. In a few installation videos I've seen they don't seem to have too much trouble seating the balancer before switching to the final bolt and torquing that down. Now those videos featured a stock balancer, so I'm hoping that I'm simply dealing with tighter tolerances.
My current plan is to get a slightly better tool in the mail tomorrow - it should use all the threads in the crank. Then give it the beans on my torque wrench set to 250ft lbs.
Is there something I'm missing? I'm just trying to be careful not to blow the threads on the crank. If that doesn't work should I try boiling the HB in water?
Thanks
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Wisconsin
ARP balancer bolt requires that much torque 235ft lbs
Last edited by feeder82; May 1, 2020 at 11:33 AM.
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did your IW balancer come with a bolt?... mine did and it was around 140-150ft/lb I believe... if you bought the arp go with what it says but if you are using the bolt supplied by IW then check the instructions, the last thing you want is a snapped/stripped crank bolt
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the bolt
Last edited by helga203; May 1, 2020 at 05:20 PM.
Le Mans Master
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Thread Starter
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From: Houston
I figured 250 would be safe for the threads with the install tool (not the bolt) to pull on since stock and ARP are ~230. That's why I came up with that number. IW recommends 130ft lbs for the final bolt torque on the instructions I saw - which I may have upped to 150 in actuality.
The end result is that I tried everything, heating, more torque (didn't get to 250 though) and the balancer is in the same spot. I pulled off the IW and compared to stock and they dimension close to the same as I can measure, I think my eyeball method is flawed. I wasn't able to reinstall the stock one as I don't have the correct puller, but I believe it must have been sitting in the same spot.
Anyways, the car finishes going back together today - hopefully it turns out well.
The end result is that I tried everything, heating, more torque (didn't get to 250 though) and the balancer is in the same spot. I pulled off the IW and compared to stock and they dimension close to the same as I can measure, I think my eyeball method is flawed. I wasn't able to reinstall the stock one as I don't have the correct puller, but I believe it must have been sitting in the same spot.
Anyways, the car finishes going back together today - hopefully it turns out well.
Last edited by MultiVAC; May 2, 2020 at 10:04 AM.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
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From: Virginia Beach
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 48
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From: Houston
See I think I got it to around 250-300 with the heat gun for 20 mins. I'm fairly certain it must be all the way on. I guess I'll find out soon, just cleaning up now before I start her up.
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do you have a laser alignment tool?... that's a quick, easy, and accurate way to check
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From: Houston
Team Owner
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Talk about confusion!!!!
The following is directly from the factory shop manual, and applies if you're using an OE, "torque to yield" bolt, to retain your replacement balancer.....
A) install balancer on hub;
B) install and tighten the used balancer bolt to 240lb.ft;
C) remove the used bolt;
D) install a new balancer bolt;
E) tighten the new bolt to 37 lb/ft, first pass;
F) tighten the bolt a second pass, 140 DEGREES of rotation
(NOT 140 lb/ft of torque!!) Emphasis is mine......
If using an ARP bolt, the specified torque value seems to vary, but when I replaced my balancer, with an ATI unit, and used an ARP bolt, the instructions from ARP called out 237 lb/ft of torque in one pass.
The following is directly from the factory shop manual, and applies if you're using an OE, "torque to yield" bolt, to retain your replacement balancer.....
A) install balancer on hub;
B) install and tighten the used balancer bolt to 240lb.ft;
C) remove the used bolt;
D) install a new balancer bolt;
E) tighten the new bolt to 37 lb/ft, first pass;
F) tighten the bolt a second pass, 140 DEGREES of rotation
(NOT 140 lb/ft of torque!!) Emphasis is mine......
If using an ARP bolt, the specified torque value seems to vary, but when I replaced my balancer, with an ATI unit, and used an ARP bolt, the instructions from ARP called out 237 lb/ft of torque in one pass.