Yes 1 hour Ive been a tech for 12 years now an automotive instructor i do all my own work . I dont just write a check . This is a nice unit and there is such thing as ram air look at pro stock cars or any one really going fast in the world of drag racing . This is still an engine dont forget your basics

 

Let's please NOT discuss what Ram-Air is, does, where it isn't, etc. It's futile. To each his own :thumbs:

 

HAHAHAHAHA - I agree - as when I was in Highschool - there was a guy that ran track with HUGE nasial nostrils thus we nicknamed him "RamAir" cause that boy was FAST on the top end!!! :lol: :jester

He set all sorts of state track records.. was it RAM AIR or was it the shoes? Guess well never know.. :p: :hat :troll :p: :hat :troll :p: :hat :troll

:p: :hat :troll

 

Ok 1 hour if you says so :skep: I installed 2 vararams so far and 1 hour just seemed a little quick. I'm with you I don't just write checks, except for paint and body work.

 

J-Rod, Nice Numbers. Did you dyno with an open hood? Enabeling you to get the same outside cooler air the vararam gets, even with a closed hood? Maybe the is a scientific definition of ram-air, but my common sence tells me I am jaming more air into my vararam on the top end at 118 then the open box did at 117, least with my car. It is dangerouse to just tie the filter down, useing the inner fram help the situation, But the best way if you want to run that type of setup, is to cut out the center and sides of the cover, leaveing enough material for the stock band clamps to give an even seal around the entire cover. Thats what the NE guys have been doing for years with good results. I get concestantly better et and mph with the vararam over that in my car so that's what I am running now. ymmv Ric

 

Ric, I completely agree with you. My suspicion is that the Vararam simply pulls its air from outside the car. Therefore, the intake charge is not heated before entering the intake tract. I suspect this is where much of the Vararam gain comes from. I replaced the factory bands with tie-wraps, and utilized the factory clamps, and the factory frame. I have no leakage issues.

The car was dyno'd with the hood open and thus could pull cold air from outside. Mys supicion is this is why Vararam cars run better in the 1/8 mile. After that the cool air coming in the vents has displaced any hoy ait, and ther eare no more gains. I have considered testing this by simply making some ducting to conenct to the stock box, and then running them down to the factory grills. Another idea I had was to simply make an isolator or partition to separate the airbox area from the rest of the engine compartment.

One of the things that may be helping me, is that I keep my hood open until right before I make my pass, so the air doesn't have a lot of time to heat up or stagnate under the hood.


David Plum - There is a bit of difference in a Pro Stock motor and a Vararam. I am not saying that Ram-Air doesn't exist at all. It is simply in the application we are discussing unless you are over 150mph you will not see "Ram-Air".

Now as for 4th order harmonic waves in sheet metal manifold that is a whole different story. Yes, using the reversion waves in the intake you can tune a motor to make 110-115% efficency in a small window. That is a lot different. Plus, I wonder what the airspeed in the manifold is at 8500rpm...


[Modified by J-Rod, 11:34 AM 1/6/2003]

 

*THIS IS MY LAST POST ON THIS SORE SUBJECT*

here are my before and after dynos, on the same dyno rollers with the same operator at MTI.

09/02 tie-wrapped k&n, S2 TB, magna flow x/stock cats
01/03 vararam, S2 TB, magna flow x/stock cats



Quin, I wish you'd get all your facts straight before using my car as an example. I can only comment on what my car has done. I'm not sure why you want to use my car as a comparison when it was clearly lower than J-rods car to begin with (as evidenced by my 09/02 dyno where I DID have a tie-wrapped filter like J-rod). Who's to say J-Rods car wouldn't dyno even HIGHER with a vararam?? Has he tried one? I don't think so.

 

My apoligies if my facts are out of order...... I thought you told me you pulled 354 stock, my bad.....but these are pretty darn close....

J-Rod : 356, 359, 372
BLU-BY-U :352, 360, 373

sorry if I pissed ya off.....certainly didn't mean to

:cheers:

 

J-Rod, It was very inovative the way you atached the tie wrap to the clamps, but it looks like it might take more time, than cleanly cuting the stock lid and useing the stock clamps for most. I agree with your observations at the track also to a point, but as you know if you get to the later rounds of the race thay can hot lap you with little or no time for proper cool down. It seems you enjoy "tinkering" on the car and the ducts are a good idea. I liked raceing with my K&N and "stock box" also but the VaraRam does make an improvement that is valuable for the bracket racer and the street driver that cant cool down before the "go", at the very least. The main thing is to have a good time with the car what ever you do. You seem to be doing just that!! and geting good numbers at the track and dyno, you get my vote for doing it "right". But 6600 launch :confused: There might be a gentler way for parts but it's your car. Ric

 

Congrats on the install. :cheers:

Let's not forget that the perfect filter setup for dyno numbers is an open airbox with lots of filter area that can easily feed the engine. The VR does not show up well on a dyno becuase the area in the runners is not compressed when standing still and the inlet charge has to be pulled from a greater distance.

:steering:

 

:iagree:

RG

 

Don't forget your basics. There is no such thing as ram air at automotive speeds. Pro-Stock and faster cars are getting to high enough speeds at the top end of the track that they may gain some slight benefit and their lively-hood depends on thousandths of a second.

But at 115 mph trap speeds, you aren't achieving ram air through some twisty plastic tubes with VENTS to let "water" out.

Carroll Smith in "Tune to Win", P. 106.... (most of his experience comes from INDY racing, good book..)

Intake Ram (psi) =

Air density (lb/ft^3) X (Air velocity in FPS)^2
----------------------------------------------
288g


80 mph:

.076 X (118)^2
---------------- = 0.11 lb/in^2 (psi)
288 X 32.2


BUT he goes on and says:

"In both cases we have assumed a 100% efficient duct, which is not possible---75% efficient would be a good one"

0.11 psi x .75 = 0.08 psi.

Turbulence isn't the real problem. In any piping run, a boundary layer builds up next to the wall where the flow velocity is actually zero. As the roughness of the pipe wall gets worse, the boundary layer grows thicker. As the air moves on down the pipe, it is slowed by the boundary layer effect (head loss) and the boundary layer essentially grows thicker slowing the air more. If the run is long enough, the head losses can actually be long enough to completely stop the flow (pressure differential between the inlet and outlet is zero).

Take the vent on your dryer and add about 30 feet to it and you'll see that there's not enough pumping power (from the exhaust fan) to even move the air through the hose. The same head losses occur every time straight flow is interupted by a bend, valve, fitting, etc.

There's a piping engineer's bible published by Crane Valves (Technical Paper #410) that puts all the equations together and will let you calculated the pressure drop through a piping network with all the variables you could think of.

 

Ain't math fun?:)

All you guys getting great results.... just keep on keepin' on.:)

RG


[Modified by RG in Dallas, 12:28 PM 1/7/2003]

 

One thing to keep in mind RG. You SELL and make a profit on vararams. I don't care about anything except not wasting my money.

You have a vested interest in the product.

As I have said in other posts, I believe there are probably some gains to be had from Cold Air Induction, a combination of cooler, denser air providing more oxygen to the engine AND the better PCM values you get from that cooler air.

This argument is about ram air, and since no one wants to put a manometer in their vararam box, we don't have any evidence of ram-air or boost except vararams advertising claims.

I didn't start this one. I'm just backing J-Rod's post up with the "math/physics" that explain what he said in more detail.

 

I beleive that the "ram air" effect was a great marketing ideal that Pontiac came up with. If you took a stock motor and measured its power, then added a supercharger with a very small amount of boost and measured its power. That would be interesting.

 

WHO CARES! This topic has been beaten to death and it gives me a headache reading this crap. Bottom line: If you dont believe in the product DONT BUY IT! I have had the vararam for roughly 6 weeks now and I am very happy with it. The car has shown a lower IAT temp(compared to the K & N) from the first test drive and a quicker pop off of of a roll. If you have some type of empiracle data that states that the product doesn't work than post it. Otherwise keep biased opinions that have no background off of the board. This crap of bashing products is getting old.
Phillip :cuss

 

:iagree:

Amen to that - let's move on ..

 

It works Phil, you know it, I know it, and many others know it.:)

RG

 

Yep, we sure do, with great success...:) The reasons: the unit works, the unit has a money back guarantee against what is on their website, the qality of plastci,design and filter is up there with others and the service by VR has been great, oh yeah, and people like to go faster and quicker behind the wheel.:)

It's all good, Tom...if one wants a Vortex, we sell those, if one wants Blackwing, we sell those, if ones wants to stay stock, we carry those too.;):):D

RG

 

Yep, Just like the other major brands work too! No one better than the other. :cheers: