Hi Guys,

I posted up here on the 19th, and I come back to this post 14 days later to find that I have been "beat up on". And also defended by some, and I thank you.

First, let me make clear that all of the apple to apple price comparisons leave out one very expensive part. The part left out would add $600 to any of the headers that the prices were put down for. That part is the Collectors. If you call anyone from Burns to Dynatech to price a stainless steel "Merge Collector", you will find them priced at more than $300 each. that adds $600 to a set of headers. And you might say "Why would I need them"? The answer is that they make a broader power curve. Plus you will not find a real race car, not Winston cup car, or IRL or Cart or F1 car without "Merge Collectors". And you must ask, " Would they not use the BEST collector"? Or "If there were a better collector than the 'merge collector, why would they stick with it if it was an inferior design"?
Dynatech exhaust makes the FLP headers. Dynatech sell 2 collector styles. The regular collectors are $45 each ($90/pr) the SS Merge Collector is $304 each (608/pr) see link below. http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...&CategoryID=33
What does that tell you about the quality and power potential of the different collectors? This is the same tech forum that debates the +'s and -'s of minor cam differences, and air intakes, and Air filter and muffler designs. Why would any of you not debate a major component like collector design. This is a forum for the informed buyer.

Now for the power of the LG vs all the rest. there have been many tests done. Katech did a back to back test against the TPIS, and found 30 ft lb more torque with the LGM headers OVER the tpis, at 2800 rpms. The power through the range was also greater than the tpis, and it was not until the very top 200 rpms is where the tpis caught up, and only there. This was due to the fact that the tpis had a cross over pipe, and the LGM's did not, for this test. Even though the test put the LGM headers at a disadvantage without a cross over, the LGM headers still out powered the TPIS.

Then there was a test done by Forum member Collin O'brien pitting the LG header against the FLP. He also found the huge increase at 2800 rpms. For all but 700 rpms, the LG headers out powered the flp headers. I don't think there is any question that the headers out power the competition, it is just the price of the components that makes everyone think twice.

I have a choice to not buy the Merge Collectors, and I choose to include them in our headers. That puts me at a $600 disadvantage to begin with. I built these headers originally because I refused to put a bad header on my car. And all the headers were just that, in my opinion. I wanted "race Quality" headers, and I figured that I wasn't the only one in the Corvette Community to want something better than what was out there. I was correct. We have a hard time keeping up with the orders. Fitting four 1 3/4" tubes by the bellhousing is the road block that keeps the Lower Priced header manufacturers from building this long of a header. We install the headers on a C5 Jig car no less than 3 times before they ship, to insure that they fit. Each Stainless header is hand tig welded, and it includes Stainless "V flange" clamps that are also stainless. No other headers for the C5 use Stainless "V flanges".

Having said all this, I must say that I was never trying to "flame" anyone. I was just defending against a claim that my headers were overprice. And the implication was that the overpricing had no connection with the true cost of the header. The reason that we are farming our headers out to a major company is because we need to make a quality part that we are willing to put our name on, and price it to be affordable. Then there will be no question as to who will win a poll like this.

You will all be pleased to know that BORLA will be building our LG Long Tubes for us in the near future. I feel confident that BORLA will live up to our expectations. We will offer a system with the Header, 3" X pipe, and it will continue as a 3" pipe, back to the 2 bolt flange of the Cat Back system.

We are also working with Random to supply not only a high flow 3" cat, but we will offer the new "Metal Matrix" cats as an option. Believe it or not, most of what we sell now is without cats. But nevertheless, they will be available.

The pricing of the full system from the engine with 32" headers to 3" Xpipe,and full 3" all the way to the Cat back, will be $1595. they will be sold through all the major outlets, and forum vendors. And we will sell the first 20 sets for $1495, without cats. I will be taking orders as soon as BORLA starts full production for us.

I am still waiting for the second prototype from Borla, but that should be here very soon. There will be some very small comprimises made in order to keep the cost down, but they should only affect the hp in a very small way.
Needless to say, we are working to minimize any differences.

We will still make the full custom system in house for those of you who want the hand made version, but for those who want the best of the design, without the price, our production version will also be there to fill the demand.

Sorry for the long answer, but I hope this clears up some of the questions.

We are probably still 2+ months out so I encourage you to go with our hand built version in the interim.

Thanks
and Have a nice day.
Lou Gigliotti LGM

 

I'll add my vote for the LG's. I picked up 30 lb-ft rwtq and 25 rwhp up to 3400 RPM with the LG's over FLP's on my H/C car. As Lou mentioned above, except for the 3500-4200 RPM range, the LG's were pretty much 10 lb-ft and 10 hp above the FLP's the rest of the way to red line.

As for price, I think that's really an individual decision everybody has to make for themselves. You can spend less for headers, and get some nice gains. For me, I wanted more boost down low, so the LGs were by far the best choice. Plus I know that Lou stands behind his products, and is always ready to answer questions and help out - which is worth a lot, too! :cheers:

Collin

 

:thumbs: :iagree: :D Lou is a down to earth kind of guy that stands behind his products. :yesnod:

 

Lou, thanks for the update on the "production" LGM LT System. I'm one of your #1 loyal fans. BTW, I sent you an email. Hope to hear from you soon & look forward to going back to LGM, home of the "Most powerful C5 headers on the planet" The LG Long Tubes.

 

Lou,

Question here so I understand. The FLP's are basically a bolt in replacement system allowing you to save your original system intact. After reading your post, it sounds like you will also offer such a system so that I can remove my exhaust from the heads to the cat back and replace with your system including cats so I can pass emissions. Have I got this correct? (I hope so, as I will gladly wait for it's availability).

Second question, can you explain this matel matrix CAT that Random is working on and what are the advantages?


[Modified by vettenuts, 6:24 AM 6/3/2003]

 

Thanks for the response Lou. I have made the decision to go with your headers when the production line becomes available in a few months. Keep me posted becuase I am ready to buy the first set. :yesnod: