I'm with you on that one, minivette.

Bottom line is that the motors are the same...
Same heads, block, cam(post 2000), intake manifold, TB bore size

What is different with regards to power to the ground is;
Different exhaust, air intake and drivetrain loss.

Dont buy in to the numbers game put on by GM, unless you really think the f-bodys have some sort of engineering miracle in the form of a drivetrain to be able to show a zero loss at the wheels, from GM's rated numbers.

I do have one bit of advice... before some of you guys go on and proclaim the superiority of the vette motor over that of the f-body, try doing a little research first(specification and LS1 might be a goog place to start). Posting nonsense such as some of the stuff listed above only goes to show that GM's marketing department is doing its job.

But the vette is rated more so it must have the better motor :lolg:

That having been said, I do believe the vette would win on average in straight line acceleration if both vehicles are stock and both are equally driven.

 

Mike & Mini,
Please see my link I posted. It is from Road & Track, not GM. It is fact, not fiction. If you want to see for yourself then simply go out and find an SS on the street. They're all over the place. Then find out for yourself. You'll be pleased with your performance over theirs. :cheers:

 

I say its all in the drivers. I have seen many stock F-Bodies run low low 13s while I have see a couple of C5s run 14s bone stock.

 

Hmmm.
'99 FRC dynoed at 321/330's
'00 SS dynoed at 320.9/330's
(SAE corrected, same dyno)

The trannies are the same. Both have 3.42 gears. The SS has a better axle for straight line. The vette has better weight distribution, the suspension is better for turning left and right, and has bigger brakes. The SS is a little heavier and it's a vert, which flexes a lot. The vette doesn't flex much.

I suspect half the price difference is "corvette" stamped on the plastic vs. "camaro". There isn't much difference in performance if any. There is a big difference in ride and more "modern" parts. The camaro electronics and controls are a little dated. The vette is a much tighter car to drive. :steering:

 

My 2000 camaro SS went 12.81 @109 with nitto drags, lid, and borla. It made 335rwhp with those mods. The cars are so close it comes down to the driver.

BTW this thread is full of mis-information. The TB are the same size, just that its cable driven instead of electic motor like the C5. The computer tuning is the same. Most stock f-bodys dyno higher than stock C5's because there is more loss in the C5 drivetrain through the IRS. All 6 speed LS1 f-bodys can be had with the 3:42 rear gear option.

 

I admit, I don't know for sure, and have no direct info, just what I have read and heard right wrong or indifferent!. Also I don't know about F- bodies at all!

I think Willi and Phrankw above gave us the best info! Corrected Dyno numbers, not much room for spin there! So they are the same engine! Kewl! I think!

Jer


[Modified by BlueDragon, 6:03 PM 6/11/2003]

 

Thank you Mike00FRC, Messiah, willi and FRC 21. Those were all the points I was going to make when I got a chance to reply to this thread again.

Everyone is talking about the horsepower ratings, etc. as what sets these cars apart. This is, in fact, where the cars are most similar. The C5 is on a totally different level in regards to suspension, aerodynamics, interior, technology(AH/TC, HUD), etc.

The IRS of the vette causes it to lose more HP due to the drivetrain than the straight axle F-body. However, the trade off is a near bulletproff rearend vs. the tin can 10 bolt rear of the F-body.

I think most of the misinformation has been cleared up (there was alot). From 98-00, the F-Body's had an EGR, the vette has never had one. This is one of the reason's that the cam is slightly different. In 2001, all LS1's do not have an EGR hence the same cam and LS6 intake. The throttle bodies are the same (vettes are "fly by wire"). I believe the alt. on the vette is mounted on the top vs. on the bottom of the motor for the F-Body. There are also a few other differences on the mounting of the steering rack, pulley, etc. that really don't matter much.

To go by any type of motor rating given out by the manufacturer is, well, I really shouldn't say. There are plenty of dyno's floating around to show the actual horsepower these cars put out. Also, the 345hp package for the SS is nothing more than an intake lid. The differences between the SS/WS6/Z28/Formula are negligible as well. The differences are easily put in three catagories. Intake (ram air), exhaust and suspension. None of them make "that" much difference. It all comes down to driver.

A friend of mine had a 99 FRC that was stock, I was stock as well. Our first time to the track I beat him all except two runs. All the runs were exactly the same. Out of the hole I would pull about a car on his FRC. About 3/4 track I could see him slowly start to catch me as his aerodynamics started playing more of a role and he would pull to about 1/2 a car before we crossed the finish line. He never was able to catch me though. That's right, I drive an F-body. :seeya

But not only an F-Body, my GF has an 01 Z06 and I split time between both. So I am not biased here at all, just stating facts and personal experiences.

phrankw, I did look at the link you posted. It compares an SS to a Z06. That's like comparing an apple to a carrot. They are not even in the same class. THe Z06 is near "supercar" status and the SS is just a fast car that handles well. Oh, almost forgot, someone posted that the C5 has a shorter wheelbase than the F-Body, hence a better 60' time. Wheelbase has absolutely nothing to do with 60' times! :crazy:

I'm sure I left something out but I think I covered most of the misinformation I read earlier in the thread.

:cheers:


[Modified by minivette, 12:15 AM 6/12/2003]

 

Hi minivette -

For reference, I personally saw a 2002 SS (gorgeous car in dark blue with AR Torque Thrusts) dyno 309rwhp. This car had a cat back and nothing else. there were no "regular" C5's there that day, but my bone stock '02 Z06 put up 356 rwhp that day.

best regards -

mqqn


[Modified by mqqn, 4:40 PM 6/12/2003]

 

My camaro SS was much more powerfull than my C5, but then there were many more mods on the SS :D Even so, I NEVER had a problem hanging with a C5 when I was stock. It still amazes me how high and mighty some vette owners are when it comes to the C5/F-body debates.. Not directed towards this thread, but generally speaking. I don't know how many C5'rs I ran into in past years who just assumed they were faster because they owned a corvette. Then again, many of these people knew nothing about their cars either. I've been building and modding LS1's for years now. My FRC is about to become my next big motor project :D

 

Why are people trying to compare the Z06 to a SS?? The cars are not even in the same class. :confused: The letters Z06 should not even come up in the same sentence as the SS.

 

:lurk:

 

I don't have anything more to offer on the tech side of this discussion, but I thought I share a recent encouter with an SS on the freeway.

11:30pm, cruising @ 80mph in 6th in the #2 lane, a red SS passes me in the #1 lane, then slows down. I roll down my window & can hear his headers.

I downshift into 4th and we're rolling @ about 80-85mph. He's on my left. We give each other the nod and hit it. I was very surprised, but I totally pulled him.

I upshifted into 5th @ 5500rpm and he was about 5-6 car lengths behind me.
I slow down, and he passes me, I get behind him and flash him, acknowledging that it was cool.

We exit at the next off ramp and I give him the thumbs up. He does the same. I notice that he's got a gauge pod mounted on the left sill of the windshield. He asks me how I'm set up and I just say "bolt-ons, and you?" He said the same thing.

I had never street raced an SS before, so I had no idea what was going to happen. He told me that I was faster than a "usual" C5, but I don't know what he meant by that, I guess he meant bone stock.

When I got home, I checked the Window Valet for the top speed and it said 126mph.

The SS owner was a cool dude. :chevy

 

The vett has
1. Aerodynamic
2. 25 more hp
3. 30 ft tq
4. 225 lbs less
5. True dual exhaust
6. Weight ratio front to rear 55.45

I’ve seen a lot of Camaro bet vetts all day long, but not with out mods and some money. I’ve been told several times by other members that the Camaro is the poor mans racecar. It’s 20k less and not a huge loss in performance, and with that 20k you saved you can build one hell of a car.

I’ve raced a 98 Trans Am LS1 which is about the same car as the SS. He had headers, dual exhaust and every bolt on you can buy. My car is fully stock and I only won by .23. I have a 6 spd and that Trans Am was an auto.

 

I've beat every stock vette I have come across. Auto and 6 speed. Basically, the cars are so close in straight line racing, it comes down to the driver.


[Modified by minivette, 9:47 PM 6/13/2003]

 

Regarding this information:

SS
Under $30,000
Curb Weight: 3439 lbs.
Max Horsepower: 5200 rpm
Horsepower: 325 hp
Regarding this:

Performance:
Opt for the SS performance package, and you get 325 real horsepower, thanks to forced air induction through an aggressive-looking hood scoop. The SS will hit 60 mph in a little over 5 seconds from a stop and continue on to a 13.5-second quarter-mile if you keep the pedal planted -- about as fast as it gets for under $30K.

Sorry, the information is incomplete. It does not include the SLP option that is ordered through the dealer for 345 HP. It includes a different air intake and lower restriction exhaust. SS's with the SLP exhaust have two pipes on each side, the regular exhaust has one pipe on each side. There were other SLP options available such as chrome ZR1 styled wheels. My SS had the SLP wheels and the exhaust, the air intake was not available in 2000.





[Modified by 123Gone, 4:18 PM 6/13/2003]

 

Since I've driven both in a 6 speed.

1999 Trans Am 2 years

now a C5..

Hands down the corvette is 10x better. Drives better. Feels better. Looks better. More comfortable, better handling. Feels faster on a launch, and more sure footed.

Power wise at WOT they feel the same. The vette feels stronger up top.

A vette is a vette.

An F body is an F Body.

 

:iagree: i have had both also...........two different kinds of animals. f-body gone...........vettes rule.

 

I totally agree. The vette is an all around waaaaaay better car. BUT don't be arrogant and think you will own an F-body in the straights or on the highway because alot of the times, one will hand you some humble pie.

I love the Z06 my girlfriend has and I treat it as my second car. There are some F-body's with mods around here that I would not dare go up against in it. Know your competition.

:steering:

 

The cams are actually different between many of the different cars.

Different years almost always had slightly different cam specs according to the LS1 book my friend has. I don't remember the exact title, or author, but the book broke down the cam specs for each year LS1, in each car, including the trucks.

I know for sure most years had different cam specs, and I believe even between models, ie F-Body vs. C5 the cam specs were slightly different in the same year.

I can find out the title etc of the book. It has a ton of good info about the engines, and different mods. Including info on N2O wet and dry systems.

 

Guys & Ladies,

I'm a complete drag racing doofus, novice, etc.

Hypothesis: People buy Corvettes for reasons beyond just outright speed.

After reading all the posts, my guess is that the better driver will win in a drag race among the cars listed in the subject header.

Price/performance ratio is higher for the SS if going fast is the only priority.

Me thinks that the average C5 or Z06 owner spends the extra and is happy because:

1. C5 exterior looks much sleeker, better than F-body (beauty is in the eye of the beholder).
2. C5 interior looks much better for a performance car (ditto for #1).
3. Removable top is better than t-tops (again ditto).
4. Corvette name and panache.
5. C5 suspension is better, and the chassis/body is more solid.
6. Intangible reasons not listed.

For bang for the buck in going fast, obviously the Camaro SS or TA Ram Air is better--not only in a straight line, but possibly around turns if the driver is superior.

My sedan is a BMW M5, but one can say that a Lincoln LS is a much better value. No argument.

Conclusion: People buy Corvettes for reasons beyond just outright speed.

Regards,

Karl