LS6-LS1 swap
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Instructor
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From: Mississauga Ontario
LS6-LS1 swap
I have the opportunity to buy an `02 LS6 motor and ECM which I would like to install in my `02 C5 Coupe. Can anyone tell me what may be involved here, or has anyone done this before?
Team Owner
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From: D*ck ina Box
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
Don't do it....HUGE waste of money, you can equal the performance much easier and for much less :cheers:
Team Owner
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From: San Jose/Bear Valley CA
CA Events Coordinator
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
I think the question here is... How much power do you want to make? We can certainly make good suggestions to you once we know what you are looking for in HP. ;)
VR :cheers:
VR :cheers:
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From: Mississauga Ontario
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (vetterdstr)
If I was looking for that 55HP difference...and BTW, I dynoed the car b4 and after the mods...was about 5-8 HP difference on the Dyno. Looking at CAMS installed and reworking the heads was over 5K here...this engine swap will only cost me about 4K and the engine is almost new. So...what would you guys suggest that would give me anothe 50-60HP on the Dyno?
[Modified by C52002VETTE, 3:41 PM 8/24/2003]
[Modified by C52002VETTE, 3:41 PM 8/24/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 58,783
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From: D*ck ina Box
CI III & IV Vote Ho
CI II, III, IV & V Vet
CI IV Bracket Champ
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
If I was looking for that 55HP difference...and BTW, I dynoed the car b4 and after the mods...was about 5-8 HP difference on the Dyno. Looking at CAMS installed and reworking the heads was over 5K here...this engine swap will only cost me about 4K and the engine is almost new. So...what would you guys suggest that would give me anothe 50-60HP on the Dyno?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: wichita ks
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
Just to be different :boxing How about putting in a better cam into the LS6 before its installed ? Price of the cam istall would be fairly low and it Seems like the motor can make more power than the ls1, and to get the best bang for Your buck, resell Your LS1 motor. Should be able to get around the 425-450 HP on the LS6 according to the post some have made. :steering:
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From: Mississauga Ontario
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (Mean Blue Z02)
Factory spec for an LS1 is 350 at the flywheel and LS6=405. Am I missing something here? I realize that the Z06 is faster than the LS1 due to reasons other than the engine, but isn't the actual HP difference 55HP at the fywheel?
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From: Redacted
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
Factory spec for an LS1 is 350 at the flywheel and LS6=405. Am I missing something here? I realize that the Z06 is faster than the LS1 due to reasons other than the engine, but isn't the actual HP difference 55HP at the fywheel?
You'll see less gain at the rear wheels than the 55hp at the flywheel, due to drivetrain losses.
For a certain amount of money, you can probably get more net RWHP for less money building up your LS1.
But of course a complete LS6 is a complete LS6. It's a GM solution and it will probably run reliably for a long time as factory engines are designed to do.
For a 2002 though, you already have a LS6 block and intake. The only significant difference are the heads and cam between LS1 and LS6. There are aftermarket cams that will give you more oomph and you can change out just the heads or have some work done on your existing heads and get more out of the engine than just a LS6 would give you.
Of course you could build up an LS6, since it starts out with some better baseline heads to begin with.
It's a matter of what set of compromises you want to make and where *you* want to go with the car.
Of course while you are fooling around in there, might want to do the clutch at the same time.
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From: Mississauga Ontario
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (larrysb)
I was not aware the the 02 LS1 actually had the same intake as the LS6. Is there some other difference besides the head...like cams? I thought I was doing well at 4K CDN for the new motor, ECM and intall. I was thinking that the cost of doing the heads and cam would far exceed that 4K.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Castle Rock Co
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
For 4K I'd do it. Keep in mind that your 02 LS1 is probably worth 2-3k to the right buyer anyways. You might want to research possible alternate cam shafts, its easy to install one when the engine is out of the car.
There is NO aftermarket company with the resources and expertise of GM Powertrain. The LS6 is a 405HP engine designed to LEV standards, warrenteed for 36k miles, and able to run 200k+ miles.
There is NO aftermarket company with the resources and expertise of GM Powertrain. The LS6 is a 405HP engine designed to LEV standards, warrenteed for 36k miles, and able to run 200k+ miles.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: New Milford CT
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
$4k is a great deal on the LS6 installed!
But! I agree with the poster who said put a cam in the new LS6 motor while the engine is out of the car. That extra 55 hp will feel like nothing in 2 weeks, and you will want more. So might as well do it now. Next problem is that you will need 4.10's to go with that setup. It never ends!
But! I agree with the poster who said put a cam in the new LS6 motor while the engine is out of the car. That extra 55 hp will feel like nothing in 2 weeks, and you will want more. So might as well do it now. Next problem is that you will need 4.10's to go with that setup. It never ends!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: wichita ks
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
I thought I was doing well at 4K CDN for the new motor, ECM and intall.
PS If You can get another LS6 for that kind of money I would sure like to do the same to my car, if shipping to the US is reasonable. :smash:
[Modified by indyblue98, 9:16 AM 8/25/2003]
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From: Mississauga Ontario
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (indyblue98)
Just a note of thanks to all of you for your very valuable information. I will likely go for the LS6 and do a cam swap at the same time. If anyone has a suggestion on which cam to go with that wouldn't require any additional headwork, please let me know.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Castle Rock Co
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
I would stay around 220 degrees duration, and around .560" lift, as the LS6 springs are good for .570"
SLP makes a 214/222 .559" .566" that looks to me like a good grind for an LS6 with stock exaust manifolds.
The LS6 heads really start to pick up over the LS1s above .500" so you want to open the valve more. Short duration high lift cams, combined with high velocity heads (like the LS6s) make for good bottom end, with snappy throttle response.
SLP makes a 214/222 .559" .566" that looks to me like a good grind for an LS6 with stock exaust manifolds.
The LS6 heads really start to pick up over the LS1s above .500" so you want to open the valve more. Short duration high lift cams, combined with high velocity heads (like the LS6s) make for good bottom end, with snappy throttle response.
Racer
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From: Bethesda MD
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (vetterdstr)
vetterdstr -
I am trying to get Z06 (400 or so HP, not RWHP) like power is my LS1. Next week I will have the following set-up:
Vortex Air Rammer, Vortex Power Duct, TPIS LT Headers, Random Tech High Flow Cats, Bassani X-Pipe, Borla Stingers, 160 Stat & Relay, Nology HotWires & Silverstone Plugs. I don't want to get into the engine itself. Am I close, is it possible?
I am trying to get Z06 (400 or so HP, not RWHP) like power is my LS1. Next week I will have the following set-up:
Vortex Air Rammer, Vortex Power Duct, TPIS LT Headers, Random Tech High Flow Cats, Bassani X-Pipe, Borla Stingers, 160 Stat & Relay, Nology HotWires & Silverstone Plugs. I don't want to get into the engine itself. Am I close, is it possible?
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From: Mississauga Ontario
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (sebrock)
Vortex Air Rammer, Vortex Power Duct = 5-6HP IMHO Saw this on a Dyno
TPIS LT Headers = 8-10HP
Bassani X-Pipe, Borla Stingers = O HP Saw on Dyno
The rest of the mods might give you 2-5 hp max...IMHO
I have the Corsa Indy with an X pipe qnd the Vortex intake with powerduct. Total gain from that whole thing was about 3-5 RWHP. Headers will probably give you more. Many people will claim enormous gains or tremendous improvements...but if you Dyno before and after which is what I did, you will see some gains, but wil also realize that they are not what most people claim.
IMHO the intakeand exhaust wil not give you anything that you can really feel...just something small on the Dyno.
TPIS LT Headers = 8-10HP
Bassani X-Pipe, Borla Stingers = O HP Saw on Dyno
The rest of the mods might give you 2-5 hp max...IMHO
I have the Corsa Indy with an X pipe qnd the Vortex intake with powerduct. Total gain from that whole thing was about 3-5 RWHP. Headers will probably give you more. Many people will claim enormous gains or tremendous improvements...but if you Dyno before and after which is what I did, you will see some gains, but wil also realize that they are not what most people claim.
IMHO the intakeand exhaust wil not give you anything that you can really feel...just something small on the Dyno.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,369
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From: New Milford CT
Re: LS6-LS1 swap (C52002VETTE)
I am using the Thunder Racing 220/553/114 cam with stock 2002 Z06 heads and stock 2002 Z06 valve springs. This is a very, very nice set-up! Pulls from 1000rpm to 6500rpm. No loss of low end power at all! Idle is a smooth burble. Tuning was not needed at all, but I did gain 10 rwhp from it.
The MMS 218 is another great cam and also the MTI B1 is a good choice to. These are all mild street cams that will drive very near to stock but with nice HP gains starting at about 3500 rpms. You may want to look at a larger 224/560/114 cam though, because the stock 2002 Z06 cam is pretty good too, and the other cams are really pretty close to it . Just depends on how much idle shake and lope you can live with.
You really should get headers and 4.10 gears though!
The MMS 218 is another great cam and also the MTI B1 is a good choice to. These are all mild street cams that will drive very near to stock but with nice HP gains starting at about 3500 rpms. You may want to look at a larger 224/560/114 cam though, because the stock 2002 Z06 cam is pretty good too, and the other cams are really pretty close to it . Just depends on how much idle shake and lope you can live with.
You really should get headers and 4.10 gears though!