Has anybody ever independently dynoed the Blackwing on a stock '99 MN6 car? I have the Blackwing and would like to know if the Halltech would be worth the switch? Thanks

 

I'll step to the plate and tell you this. We have been making intakes systems for the C5 since 1999, and our newest Tunnel Ram Air Pak (TRAP) is by far the strongest intake on the market.

On an otherwise stock LS1, you will see 15 to 16 RWHP vs. stock. Now the key to real world HP.

Dyno your stock intake with the hood CLOSED. Record 5 pulls. Pick you best pull. Fans at the front of the car duplicating conditions on the road.

Install the TRAP, and do the same CLOSED hood pulls. Pick you best pull. The delta will be at least 20 RWHP.

Now install the Tunnel Port , along with a 175 thermostat, throttle body coolant bypass and LS1 Edit to lean out WOT to take advantage of the cold air benefit of the TRAP.

26 RWHP/28 torque. Here is the proof from 21st Century Muscle Car. They carry our TRAP systems:



The Blackwing, stock, K&N, Twin Flow, and all of the Zip tie guys are fooling themselves if they dyno with the hood open and fans cooling the engine. Here's why:

The PCM starts retarding timing on the LS1 and LS6 at 95 degrees Intake Air Temperature. By the time your IAT sees 135 degrees, it has pulled a full 12 degrees on the LS1 and 8 degrees on the LS6! That equates to 10 to 12 RWHP.

The TRAP collects tons of ambient air at the front facia area behind the license plate, which is isolated completely from the engine compartment. Even without the Tunnel Port, the air is near ambient in that area. The Z06 screens provide all the cold air necessary to avoid the degraded timing issue.

Bottom line: Take any underhood breathing intake, and CLOSE the hood for your pulls. Dyno.

Take the TRAP and CLOSE the hood and dyno. The delta will be much more than 15 RWHP.

Here is the best dyno we could pull with the TRAP on our LS6. The hood was closed throughout all pulls. Spark knock was non-existant.

The mods were TRAP CF, thermostat, Halltech TBCB, Halltech Ported TB, Magnecor Wires, Meziere Electric water pump, Halltech Programming, and Rc 310cc blueprinted fuel injectors:




Completely stock exhaust manifold, stock cats, h-pipe, and titanium exhaust.


[Modified by Jim Hall, 9:11 AM 9/19/2003]

 

Jim-

Can your system be run without the license plate frame? I don't care for the way it looks. :cheers:

 

Jim, I'm a neophyte with this stuff, so bear with me. I realize that the ducts of your TRAP channel/change the air flow hitting the MAF for, reportedly, optimum results. But that aspect of your design aside, on a Z06 for example, how is your filter getting cool air through the Z06 screens any different then outside cool air going to the Blackwing? With the BW in place, there are significant (seemingly to me at least) open areas for air flow from the Z06 screens. I realize your warhead filter is farther forward (inside the bumper) than the Blackwing, but when you're moving I'm having a hard time imagining that that much heat is radiating upward from the engine compartment, through the shroud, and heating this outside air entering the Blackwing in its normal mounted position. Can you shed some light on this for me?

[QUOTE]The Blackwing, stock, K&N, Twin Flow, and all of the Zip tie guys are fooling themselves if they dyno with the hood open and fans cooling the engine. Here's why:

The PCM starts retarding timing on the LS1 and LS6 at 95 degrees Intake Air Temperature. By the time your IAT sees 135 degrees, it has pulled a full 12 degrees on the LS1 and 8 degrees on the LS6! That equates to 10 to 12 RWHP.

The TRAP collects tons of ambient air at the front facia area behind the license plate, which is isolated completely from the engine compartment. Even without the Tunnel Port, the air is near ambient in that area. The Z06 screens provide all the cold air necessary to avoid the degraded timing issue.

Bottom line: Take any underhood breathing intake, and CLOSE the hood for your pulls. Dyno.

Take the TRAP and CLOSE the hood and dyno. The delta will be much more than 15 RWHP.[QUOTE]

 

I would personally go with the blackwing, first of all you don't gain any more than 6-9rwhp with any air filters. And The Blackwing has the best system and is the safeist. The biggest problem with have a gigantic whole in your front nose is that it's going to collect all the water. Even the carbon fiber and larger air ducts do not give you any gains in rwhp. Save yourself the money and headaches and get the Donaldson Blackwing.

 

Mallettz06, the open tunnel port is an option to the TRAP system. On his website Jim pretty clearly says that this isn't something you'd want to have open while driving in the rain.

 

I went through the same debate. I choose Blackwing because of the gains AND the safety. I would gladly sacrifice 1-3hp and not have to worry about hydrolock. good luck. I am sure plenty will disagree with me. :nono:

 

The issue of hydrolock is the biggest sticking point for me on what intake to buy both the vararam and the halltech have good gains, but seems to have rather large risks with hydrolock. I need to be able to drive the car in the rain without fear. The one breathless performance makes (the vortex I think?) seems to be the best compromise of cold and and still having the filter mounted where its not going to get soaked.

 

Hi Jim,

Thanks for taking the time out to explain why cold air systems are better than the air filters that draw in warm air. The timing issue one that I did not know about because I am an old school hot rodder and forget that these new cars use computers for engine management, It all makes sense to me now. :flag

 

[QUOTE]I would personally go with the blackwing, first of all you don't gain any more than 6-9rwhp with any air filters. QUOTE]


Thats funny, I picked up 3/10's and almost 3 mph with Vararam over a Blackwing. How do you explain that??????? Cold air makes H.P.!!!!!! Autotap confirms IAT decrease.

 

You are welcome. The cold air affects the timing and also air (O2) density. For every 10 degrees of heat, you lose 1% of the potential power output of the car. Added up the loss of timing, and loss of air density, makes any cold air system a better choice than an underhood system. This is why we discontinued the T-1 in lieu of the TRAP.

Jim

 

When you are ready to purchase, check out our distributors that also sponsor this site:

Tunnel Ram Induction STOCKING WAREHOUSE DISTRIBUTORS:

A&A Corvette
Ask for Andy Green
2261 Palma Dr. #11 Ventura, CA
805-658-8299



21st Century Muscle Cars
Ask for John Page
2530 Tarpley Road, #800, Carollton, TX
972-417-7177

The LAPD
Ask for Shawn
4854 Van Nuys Blvd. Sherman Oaks, CA
818-501-3966

Motorsport Image
Mark Stein
251 Opportunity St. Suite A Sacramento, CA 95838
916-564-1632

Norris Motorsports
Mike Norris
501 Roper Parkway, Ocoee, FL
407-656-2600

West Coast Corvette
1031 South Melrose Ave.
Placentia, CA
714-630-6396

Xtreme Motorsports
364 S. Smith Road, Suite 107
Tempe, AZ
480-517-4969

 

They is little risk of hydrolock with our new Tunnel Ram Air Pak. The filter is enclosed within the front facia, 12" off the ground. The front licence plate is directly in front of it.

Cold air comes from its isolation from the engine compartment.

All C5s will hydrolock if you try driving through a foot of water. Check out the distance from the ground of the stock storkels, and you will understand.

I have been told that the car will hydroplane at around 10" of water, since the sealed balsawood bottom is flat and very low to the ground.

The PCM is also about 10" off the ground. It makes good sense to avoid heavy rain in the C5 altogether.

On the road, the large tires hydroplane in about 2" of water.

Jim Hall

 

This is true. Even though I do not recommend driving with the open Tunnel Port, I did across the entire country, from Huntington Beach, CA to Syracuse, NY and back.

Encountered rain almost continuously through CO, and Utah. Many rainstorms, and not a hickup.

This with the Tunnel Port Open. The air filter was soaked most of the time, which will very quickly cause the oil in the filter to dissapate and prevent proper filtration of the Dupont Remay synthetic filter media.

The fine mist of the rain, really just helps cool the engine. But having said this, folks that drive in FL and areas prone to flooding should stick with an underhood intake system like the BW or other.

 

I have the Vara-Ram Widemouth. Check out this thread. These are the before and after dyno #'s of my stock 99 FRC http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=615791

 

[QUOTE]

Jim, I realize that the ducts of your TRAP channel/change the air flow hitting the MAF for, reportedly, optimum results. But that aspect of your design aside, on a Z06 for example, how is your filter getting cool air through the Z06 screens any different then outside cool air going to the Blackwing? With the BW in place, there are significant (seemingly to me at least) open areas for air flow from the Z06 screens. I realize your warhead filter is farther forward (inside the bumper) than the Blackwing, but when you're moving I'm having a hard time imagining that that much heat is radiating upward from the engine compartment, through the shroud, and heating this outside air entering the Blackwing in its normal mounted position. Can you shed some light on this for me?[QUOTE]

Jim, could you address this question for me? Are you saying that the cold air your TRAP system is collecting is "colder" than the air hitting a Blackwing (assuming here a Z06 with the front screens), while the vehicle in motion, thus giving your system an advantage?


[Modified by wamara, 12:28 PM 9/22/2003]

 

:sleep: :sleep: Jim, if you see this, could you clarify this for me?

 

If you look at where the Blackwing sits, it is sucking hot air all the time.

Our filter sits directly behind the front license area, where all the air is ambient.

Within 1 block the IAT shows ambient with the TRAP.

There is a 3 to 4 % power loss with the Blackwing due to hot air/vs cold air.
This is in addition to the 8 HP or so loss to timing between 95 degrees and 135 degrees, where the PCM retards timing 12 degrees on the LS1 and 8 degrees on the LS6.

Add the two factors together and you are toasting away major RWHP.

Here's a challange. Take a stock LS1 or LS6. Dyno stock with the hood closed the way the car actually is in the real world. Fans blowing to keep the radiator working.

Add the Blackwing, do the same dyno test. (Best to run three pulls for each condition)

Then install the TRAP and dyno with the hood closed. I think the results will be shocking.

Our recent dyno test on our 2002 Z06 made 382.2 RWHP/ 367.9 torque with the HOOD CLOSED in all 5 pulls. No knock retard, no BS, no headers, stock cats, stock exhaust.

This IS a record. Bolt on mods only, without ever lifting the car in the air.

Compared to stock (350.8 RWHP/337 ft. lbs) you can see the advantage of cold air. We call this our Stinger 450 package. BTW, the 350.8 was also done with the HOOD UP. We lost 16 RWHP when closing the hood and dynoing.

 

Thank you for the response.

 

What type of filter does the TRAP use, and how does it's filtering ability compare to the Donaldson?