I HAVE JUST STARTED TO AUTOCROSS MY 98 COUPE WITH A4 TRANS. I HAVE 3.15 REAR. MY BEST TIMES SEEM TO BE WHEN HELD IN LOW. HOWEVER CAR RUNS OUT OF BREATH AND SECOND SEEMS TO TALL FOR THE LOWER SPEED CORNERS. WAS JUST DOING SOME RATIO COMPARISIONS TO Z06 THINKING THAT GEAR RATIO CHANGE MAY HELP. ORIGINALLY WAS THINKING 3,42 BUT AFTER DOING THE MATH 3.73 SEEMS TO BE THE WAY TO GO. HAS ANYONE OUT THERE AUTOCROSSED AN A4 AND HAVE ANY INPUT THAT MAY HELP. WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT . THANKS KEITH

 

This will get a lot of yucks but 2 WSCC championships and a second place the third year and placing well in SCCA, all with a 2:73 rear. Put it in first gear and stomp and steer! Set it and forget it. on some courses, I have to bump it up to second. but you can shift it fairly well and when you pull it back to first just blip the throttle to get the shi~~ft to happen! You will spin it a couple of times till you get it down, but hey!

I thought of going to a different rear, but have had so much good luck with the setup, I decided to stick with it.

Jer

 

DID YOU DO ANY ENGINE MODS? BOLT ONS . THOSE ZR1 AND ZO6 CARS ACCELERATE SO DARN HARD ITS SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT THEM. I DO LIKE YOUR ADVICE AND PROBALLY NEED A LOT MORE DRIVING SKILL THAN CAR AT THE PRESENT TIME. KEITH

 

What do you know--this is just like my post last night. I too am learning how to get the most from a '98 3.15 A4 in SOLO2, and was humbled in yesterday's layout by not knowing how to handle the same situation--second seemed too tall, but did not want to kill the tranny downshifting to first or running first too high if I wanted to keep it there.

However, don't go nuts swapping gears, though that seems the logical way to get low end torque quickly. I see having a 'lesser' car as an opportunity to hone my driving skills! I am competing with Z06's and keeping within 3 seconds of the top after a few outings. They say technique is everything, and it's true.

Have just ordered the Z06 sway bar kit, and am buying someone's Z06 shocks. These will help give that 'on rails' feeling...but am still stuck with the runcraps temporarily. The pros have been telling me even a set of Z06 stock tires will take one second off our times. Sway bars and shocks will run me about $400--pretty cheap upgrade for the benefit.

Another thing to consider is lowering the car and getting the wheels aligned more competitively. This made a big difference for me--not expensive either.

Reading others saying the A4 is tougher than expected helps, though I will eventually tune everything with LS1 edit. Our cars have the deep tranny pan, which runs cooler. Every bit helps!

Have fun, and keep me posted how you do next time.

 

OMG, autocross with the run-craps :eek:
You'll be amazed how much better GOOD tires will do for you :thumbs:

 

Yes I have Mods. Halltech Intake and MAF mods, Headers, X pipe, Corsa Indy, 1.8 Rockers, springs, pushrods, Hotchkis sway bars, Baer Eradi Rotors, Performance 01 pads, TB Bypass, 175 deg. Thermo, stainless brake lines, Dyno tune. On the track I run 315 Hoosiers on 17" rims (lowers the effective ratio in the rear) and Bilsteins. Will have a new set of LG long tubes shortly with the 3" Metal matrix cats and X pipe. Topped off with MSD wires and NGK platnum plugs. She runs better than the average bear dyno stock was 360 HPFW now she is a bit over 400 flywheel (don't have the dyno sheet handy) been a year since I was on a dyno but will redo the tune after the new headers. Oh yes lowered to the max with out cutting the rubbers and the Baer bump steer kit. (controls the front end geometry to help eliminate the front tires working against each other and eliminates the front end from preliminary push out when exiting the turns. it has to do with the front tires taking different toe angles with weight transfer side to side.)

Your suspension (alignment) set up is everything and far more important than HP. While they are shifting their hearts out and ffutzing with the gears you are working on smooth corner entrance and exit. keeping your exit speeds up and braking to the very last second. I stay in the throttle until I think I am going to miss the turn and then stand her on her nose right up against the ABS. With ABS you can enter the turn with the brake to the floor. Then smooth even rapid acceleration out of the turn managing the weight transfrer to avoid pushing out to much. Sometimes a short tap on the brake to keep the nose down.

In autocross it is all about being smooth, HP while it helps can be beat in autocross. Braking is very important. Knowing how to shift the weight of the car for maximum hook-up.

I am just a little 98 Blue Dragon with bolt-ons and can give modded Z06s a very rough time.

And Bing Badda Boom little 98 A4 takes the year end points for the Western States Corvette Council in 2000, 2001 and second in 2002 (first in 2002 still was not a Z06). and the 2003 awards are on their way, but due to work, I didn't run enough to place. But next year!!! I am back.

Some good drivers schools Bonderant (SP), Opert, Ruppert-Bragg-Smith to name a couple and lots and lots of practice. Open track helps, but is much higher speed. There the higher HP cars do have an advantage, but you can still give the majority a very hard time.

I have a lot of years of autocross and when I lived back east, we did autocross on frozen lakes in upstate NY (Ice-cross) Now those are a hoot!

Good luck!

 

thanks very much for the input. i did do an alignment for autocross and got some hoosiers after my first event on run flats. made a huge difference! there is one zo6 who i am right there with, however the fastest guys are 3 to 4 seconds quicker. think i will work on getting the suspension set up a little better and me a lot smoother. the car sure does sound great screaming in low around the track!!! :auto:

 

Jer,

Can you explain a little more about blipping the gas when downshifting the A4 to first? M6, sure, but it seems revving would be even more damaging to first gear. How do you manage to stay in first all the time, anyway--aren't there spots where you would outrun 6K RPM, or do you just back it off? I can get to 6K real fast..

I'm such a damn rookie :conehead

Thanks--Drew

 

First, I have my rev limiter kicked up to 6500 remember I have Rockers, springs and pushrod mods. And yes on some straights I am up against the rev limiter. But when I do shift to second I do it manually and then when it is time to down shift back to first, I do it going into the turn under hard braking. I am hard on the brakes, and move the shift lever back into first gear position. The car will not automatically down shift because the rear tire speed is to high. To get the shift to happen you have to blip the throttle to get the trany input speed up to allow the shift. (Sort of like double clutching a manual) (I am an old truck driver.) maybe blip is the wrong word, because I actually accelerate a little some times depending. this is where it takes practicel, to control that shift and to not wreck the tranny, and in some cases you will spin the car because you blew the shift, or it takes you by suprise.

Does that help?

 

Just finished first year autocrossi. I was into the limiter often in 1st with 2.73's. I have no mods so I'm unwilling to move the rev limiter up. I will consider 3.42's this winter. I am hearing that tires, shocks and sway bars are the biggest bang for the buck. However I agree thet #1 is practice! Get more seat time. ;)

 

The biggest bang for the buck in autocross is YOU, Brakes, tires and swaybars in that order. I have seen some amazing driving and watched guys with bone stock cars blow away guys with track and mod-ed cars. the best ones don't even look fast, they look like they are out for a sunday drive and turn in times that you just can't believe. The watch word is smooth and balanced driving. Weight transfer, application of throttle and braking. Understanding the course the turns, the rythm of the course. Off apex turns, exiting one turn to set up for the next, car placement on the track.

I do well better than most and usually place in the top four or five for TOD, but I never feel smooth enough, and never had what I would call a perfect run if there is such a thing.

That is what I like about autocross or road racing in general, there is no master at it. Some are better than others, but there is no master!

I usually will walk a course three or four times getting mental picturs of what I want to see from the drivers seat and where I should be. Where would I slide the tail out, where is the braking cone.

Jer

Jer

 

hey guys not to bud in but i totally dig your discussion as i am an ex motorcycle roadracer that was pretty fast "local guy". just bought 03 a4 convrt and installed lg long tubes vara ram and ls 1 edit. i was just at summit point (w. virginia)on 11-4-04 as my old sponsor team promotion had test and tune . he let me out on the track while bikes where on lunch break-awesome!!
i wasn't really pushing it as it was my day to screw up. the car felt pretty stong but as you guy stating i kinda felt to right gear selection. corner speed and throttle control are the most imortant aspect to fast lap times. i know guys that race sv650 that make only 69rwhp and will smoke some "fast street punk on his 165 rwhp gsxr1000, and i mean big time.
i would like to join car club but they all say i need roll bar, not really into welding one in. hey also, will those alingment specs work for the street? :steering: :steering: :steering:

 

Very helpful. Thank you all!

 

With the Corvette you really have to watch those alignment specs back and forth from street to track. With the wider tires, running a track setup with 2deg+negative caster all around and some Toe out on the front and a slight amount of toe in on the rear, you will burn up a set of street tires relatively quickly.

The issue is that even with non-EMT tires the side walls of todays street tires are fairly stiff compared to a racing tire such as a Hoosier. The Hoosier will use the track setup and roll to give you that contact patch. The streets won't, either the compond is to hard to initiate the roll or the sidewall is too stiff. With street tires I would not go much over 1deg negative and run factory spec on the toe's. With EMT (Run Craps) I would not dial in much more than a half a degree of negative camber. They are so stiff the just run on the inside edge all the time.

It is quite a delima between track and street. We are becomming so highly specialized in the products (Tires, Rotors,pads, suspension setups) that to be competitive you almost have to align back and forth.

I little trick us track and street guys use is we have the front end dialed in for agressive street, and then put the small hose clamps on the tie rods when we go to the track and while on the jack for the tire change, we re-adjust the toe settings and use the hose clamp to tell how many turns and to then set it back when we are done. works pretty neat but you can't forget to set it back or you WILL toast your tires on the way home!! Can't do much with the camber as there is no way of marking with precision and those little marks GM gives you are useless.

Jer

 

Kieth,

I have been autocrossing for over 32 years and do not claim to all knowing or an oustanding driver. But when I see a new person getting involved with this sport I ALWAYS suggest that the best way to spend your money is to get all of the seat time that you can FIRST! This will also give you the oppertunity to talk to many people with the same interests and get their ideas.

Another thing that you should think about is what your goals are. No matter what organization you are competing with there are usually rules as to what changes you can make on your car before you are moved to another class. Sometimes if you make too many changes you may be bumped up into a class that requires additional costly safety gear such as a roll bar or racing suit.

There are some good books available on the subject of autocrossing and competitive driving. These can be purchased for a small amount of money and can give you some great information.

As some others here have said it is not always HP and set up that wins an autocross. I have seen bone stock 86 and 92 base Corvettes defeat Z06 and ZR1s. Good luck with what ever you do and above all HAVE FUN!

 

I agree, but it's so much fun to modify. My personal goal was to see if I could improve steadily without mods, and when I feel I am driving my car close to it's potential consistently, then I will consider some tweaking. :iagree:

 

ok you guys , first this is a great forum and the experienced guys are a TREMENDOUS help!!! i have considered what has been posted regarding autocrossing and performance mod to c5's. i have an early 98 without active handling and with f45 and a4 . right now i have a b+b prt muffler setup, fairly aggressive alignment [ not lowered] and hoosiers. i was 3.5 seconds slower than the fastest zr1 last week. i thinks i will do just a few mods and then learn to drive. gonna add a vararam , set of long pipes and zo6 sway bars.. i'll post on the results after the next event....againn thanks for the inputs!!!!!!! :auto:

 

Runcraps are BAD???? :confused: :D Try autocrossing with those pigs when its cold out. Denver Winter Autocross Schedule. They never grab. :cry
Vettemaster, What I have learned quickly in Autocross is......... take the SHORTEST line and stay SMOOTH. They had a big circle at one autocross. I purposely worked it. The cars that stayed the tightest to the Circle was the quickest thru there. I timed them going in and out of that section. They were slower in speed, but they got thru that section quicker. :thumbs:
I noticed your in Tucson!!! I'm in Phoenix now. Let me know when you do another Autocross and I'll at least ride with you. :)


[Modified by Coc5, 8:51 PM 11/6/2003]


[Modified by Coc5, 9:56 PM 11/6/2003]

 

:iagree: The best advice for autocross on this entire thread is, "get seat time"! Very few of us can actually drive our cars to their full capability with any kind of consistency! Me included. You also need to get the car stablized. What I mean is that if every time you go out you have a new mod this or a new mod that, you never really get a chance to settle down and get out of the learning the car curve and get into the driving the course curve. Do one change at a time and learn it then on to the next. My first mods were lower the car, and swaybars. then tires and then back to sway bars. Actualy my HP mods were the very first, but I drove the car several months before going to autocross.

Seat time is the only way to do well at autocross.
I am absolutely convinced and agree with LT7.

Jer