Bought a K&N filter . . .
Racer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: East Haven Ct
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (Zen06)
well the only issue i have ever seen is people over oiling the k&n and the oil messing up the maf sensors.
i seem to recall there was a bulletin awhile back in either 98 or 99 on just this issue.
i remember one of calloway's people telling me the exact same thing after they did some work on my first camaro ss back in 96. and adding while it may let in a small amount more of dirt the engine oil filters that out.
now donaldson has similar filters and they were validated by chevy for camaro ss's through an slp option.
[Modified by chevysales, 9:31 PM 1/26/2004]
i seem to recall there was a bulletin awhile back in either 98 or 99 on just this issue.
i remember one of calloway's people telling me the exact same thing after they did some work on my first camaro ss back in 96. and adding while it may let in a small amount more of dirt the engine oil filters that out.
now donaldson has similar filters and they were validated by chevy for camaro ss's through an slp option.
[Modified by chevysales, 9:31 PM 1/26/2004]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 523
From: home
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (chevysales)
I'll put this in the FWIW catagory. We run nothing but oem GM paper air filters in our T1 Corvettes. We have found oil residue on the maf wires from aftermarket air filters. Yes, even when using out of the box, not any oil applied to the filter, filters. One brand showed a 3hp LOSS on our chassis dyno.
Mark
Phoenix Performance
Mark
Phoenix Performance
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,104
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From: "In a van down by the river" CO
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (3X2)
You can't compare the K & N to the Donaldson. They use different medias. K & N uses cotton, Donaldson uses a synthetic. Donaldson also uses a different theory with the C5 filters than K and N. K/N uses the same overall dimensions on their replacement filters, therefor limiting the amount of media surface and, inherently, the volume of air that can pass. The synthetic material of the Donaldson is less porous but overcompensates by grossly expanding the amount of surface area, allowing more air. All in all, the Donaldson is worlds apart from the K/N and therefor, worlds apart from the original discusion of the K/N cotton filter.
And I will semi-cede (pun intended) on the reluctance of some OTR transport companies to use K/N filters. For the most part, I misunderstood where the arguement was going. Since the original question regarded a CAR, I assumed the poster was applying the theory to CARS. I guess this was not the case. Chris
And I will semi-cede (pun intended) on the reluctance of some OTR transport companies to use K/N filters. For the most part, I misunderstood where the arguement was going. Since the original question regarded a CAR, I assumed the poster was applying the theory to CARS. I guess this was not the case. Chris
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (3X2)
I'll put this in the FWIW catagory. We run nothing but oem GM paper air filters in our T1 Corvettes. We have found oil residue on the maf wires from aftermarket air filters. Yes, even when using out of the box, not any oil applied to the filter, filters. One brand showed a 3hp LOSS on our chassis dyno.
Mark
Phoenix Performance
Mark
Phoenix Performance
Heck, I've read arguments over motor oils that supposedly produce 2 RWHP over OEM oil - not worth arguing over, IMO.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington NC
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (3X2)
I'll put this in the FWIW catagory. We run nothing but oem GM paper air filters in our T1 Corvettes. We have found oil residue on the maf wires from aftermarket air filters. Yes, even when using out of the box, not any oil applied to the filter, filters. One brand showed a 3hp LOSS on our chassis dyno.
Mark
Phoenix Performance
Mark
Phoenix Performance
:confused: :confused:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 523
From: home
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (Richin Chicago)
Just curious how can you duplicate a 3 HP loss? I haven't seen that kind of accuracy between dyno runs with everything exactly the same let alone a filter change?
:confused: :confused:
:confused: :confused:
Mark
Phoenix Performance
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington NC
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (3X2)
Just curious how can you duplicate a 3 HP loss? I haven't seen that kind of accuracy between dyno runs with everything exactly the same let alone a filter change?
:confused: :confused:
We make some baseline runs and change the filter and compare the results. Done this on many cars with the same results.
Mark
Phoenix Performance
:confused: :confused:
We make some baseline runs and change the filter and compare the results. Done this on many cars with the same results.
Mark
Phoenix Performance
Do you get that kind of repeatable run accuracy? Most cars, with the exact same set up, have larger variances than that, between run 1 and 2.?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 523
From: home
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (Richin Chicago)
I'm not comparing different cars. We have our own dyno, I can do as many runs as needed. Using the same car, same day, same fuel, same weather conditions, we've seen a 3 hp loss with some aftermarket filters. I've always found oil from whatever aftermarket filter I tried. Remember, this is in a stock Z06 airbox, we aren't allowed aftermarket air boxes- just filter elements. I can almost assuredly repeat the results on other T1 Corvettes, even though the absolute hp numbers may be different. Given, say, x numbers of Corvettes on any given day, hp and torque numbers will vary between each car, but we've seen a loss of hp on each car when not using a new oem paper filter. 3 hp in this class IS a lot when we're dealing with simliarly built cars.
Mark
[Modified by 3X2, 7:26 PM 1/27/2004]
Mark
[Modified by 3X2, 7:26 PM 1/27/2004]
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Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington NC
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (3X2)
I'm not comparing different cars. We have our own dyno, I can do as many runs as needed. Using the same car, same day, same fuel, same weather conditions, we've seen a 3 hp loss with some aftermarket filters. I've always found oil from whatever aftermarket filter I tried. Remember, this is in a stock Z06 airbox, we aren't allowed aftermarket air boxes- just filter elements. I can almost assuredly repeat the results on other T1 Corvettes, even though the absolute hp numbers may be different. Given, say, x numbers of Corvettes on any given day, hp and torque numbers will vary between each car, but we've seen a loss of hp on each car when not using a new oem paper filter. 3 hp in this class IS a lot when we're dealing with simliarly built cars.
Mark
[Modified by 3X2, 7:26 PM 1/27/2004]
Mark
[Modified by 3X2, 7:26 PM 1/27/2004]
we are beating this to death but here are the results of the same car with 4 runs.
Run 1 307.3 HP
Run 2 312.6 HP
There was less than 5 minute between runs and nothing waas touched.
The next runs were about 2 hours later.
Run 1 312.7
Run 2 316.4
Again, less than 5 minutes between runs.
Dynojet with .98 SAE correction.
I'm just saying that there is not 0 HP repeatable accuracy between runs. As someone else mentioned 3 HP is in the noise.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: East Haven Ct
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (lowdowndirty)
i wasn't really comparing the filter per se as its fairly obvious of their differences but the "oiling" of them, thats all. :)
i see donaldson also making a panel replacement for factory sold.
adding my 2 cents that any issues i have ever saw pass thru our doors about were directly related to the over oiling of them and this was maf issue on 1 camaro and 1 vette. and those were 2 over past 10+ years here. and in both cases they were warrantied (the first with no questions) the second after dept became aware of this thru gm and that 2 was warrantied. again this was around 98-99 period of time.
[Modified by chevysales, 8:08 PM 1/27/2004]
i see donaldson also making a panel replacement for factory sold.
adding my 2 cents that any issues i have ever saw pass thru our doors about were directly related to the over oiling of them and this was maf issue on 1 camaro and 1 vette. and those were 2 over past 10+ years here. and in both cases they were warrantied (the first with no questions) the second after dept became aware of this thru gm and that 2 was warrantied. again this was around 98-99 period of time.
[Modified by chevysales, 8:08 PM 1/27/2004]
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (Richin Chicago)
I'm not comparing different cars. We have our own dyno, I can do as many runs as needed. Using the same car, same day, same fuel, same weather conditions, we've seen a 3 hp loss with some aftermarket filters. I've always found oil from whatever aftermarket filter I tried. Remember, this is in a stock Z06 airbox, we aren't allowed aftermarket air boxes- just filter elements. I can almost assuredly repeat the results on other T1 Corvettes, even though the absolute hp numbers may be different. Given, say, x numbers of Corvettes on any given day, hp and torque numbers will vary between each car, but we've seen a loss of hp on each car when not using a new oem paper filter. 3 hp in this class IS a lot when we're dealing with simliarly built cars.
Mark
[Modified by 3X2, 7:26 PM 1/27/2004]
we are beating this to death but here are the results of the same car with 4 runs.
Run 1 307.3 HP
Run 2 312.6 HP
There was less than 5 minute between runs and nothing waas touched.
The next runs were about 2 hours later.
Run 1 312.7
Run 2 316.4
Again, less than 5 minutes between runs.
Dynojet with .98 SAE correction.
I'm just saying that there is not 0 HP repeatable accuracy between runs. As someone else mentioned 3 HP is in the noise.
Mark
[Modified by 3X2, 7:26 PM 1/27/2004]
we are beating this to death but here are the results of the same car with 4 runs.
Run 1 307.3 HP
Run 2 312.6 HP
There was less than 5 minute between runs and nothing waas touched.
The next runs were about 2 hours later.
Run 1 312.7
Run 2 316.4
Again, less than 5 minutes between runs.
Dynojet with .98 SAE correction.
I'm just saying that there is not 0 HP repeatable accuracy between runs. As someone else mentioned 3 HP is in the noise.
My car was dynoed twice within 5 minutes and RWHP jumped 10. This is why I cannot believe anyone using any dyno can definitively say that a filter increased or reduced HP.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 518
From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
Re: Bought a K&N filter . . . (DENVER_C5)
I know most of the time the hp additions for such minor mods are false and just a hype for the product, but will there be any thing I will notice between my new K&N drop in and my old crappy filter?
