Am I missing something here or is this the same
11 dollar filter that I have on my car with just a
bracket on it...? :confused:

 

The filter my be $11 but those Aeroquip anodized fittings are not cheap, I doubt you could buy all the parts for less then $50.

I would pay $75 for it, and not have to figure it all out, cut the plate, etc.

 

Not to be rude, but I don't undeerstand how this could be. I think you may have your terms confused or something.

The intake pulls a vacuum on the crankcase when the PCV is hooked up. If you put the filter in the middle you would have less of a vacuum on the crankcase. If you can hear air coming in the rear main seal you have other problems (it should not leak). Are you sure the fresh air source for the PCV is hooked up correctly (this is what limits the amount of vacuum in the crankcase).

BTW, I really don't think these little filters work well. The posts above hit on the reason why. You need something much bigger with more surface area for the oil to cling to. Most of the oil is in the form of vapor. I've seen people use a big PCV canister with cotton T-shirts stuffed inside. It's ugly, but it does work.

 

All you have to do to get to the BOTTOM of this problem is to:
1. Put a measured volume of engine oil into the filter! Hell,,just fillit up to the bottom of the filter and run it normally for a full tank of gas! Every so often check the level of oil in the sight glass!
If it is less than when you started, you know that it will suck out X amount of oil once it get above a certain level!

Simple solution!!!!!!!!!

bc

 

QUOTE]Not to be rude, but I don't undeerstand how this could be. I think you may have your terms confused or something.

The intake pulls a vacuum on the crankcase when the PCV is hooked up. If you put the filter in the middle you would have less of a vacuum on the crankcase. If you can hear air coming in the rear main seal you have other problems (it should not leak). Are you sure the fresh air source for the PCV is hooked up correctly (this is what limits the amount of vacuum in the crankcase).

BTW, I really don't think these little filters work well. The posts above hit on the reason why. You need something much bigger with more surface area for the oil to cling to. Most of the oil is in the form of vapor. I've seen people use a big PCV canister with cotton T-shirts stuffed inside. It's ugly, but it does work. [/QUOTE]

:iagree:
Jason and I were talking abount the vacuum issue last night, and agree with QuickSilver. If you had no PVC or filter to restrict the vacuum in the crankcase, you might be sucking air past a seal, thereby causing noise; but if you do have filter & PCV restricting the air somewhat, you could hardly be causing a higher vacuum in the crankcase. Is it possible the "seal noise" may have been something else that seated properly and sealed itself once the motor went thru several heat/cool cycles?

On the issue of the trap filter not being big enough, you may be right. However, if most of the oil is in vapor form, then the filter would be pretty discolored by now and it's not; It's still white. I'll pull the whole thing apart and check out the interior of the TB and see how much might have slipped by.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

Glass or plastic bowl? Some have reported problems with the plastic over time.

 

Over simplifying this for clarity reasons...

PCV 101: Positive Crankase Ventilation is designed to pull combustion gases from the crankcase. As our engines age, and blow-by increases, these gases increase. If not vented, the moisture in the gases also cause sludge buildup and effect the detergents in the oil.

At idle, the force of the vacuum overcomes the force of the PCV valve, and the valve allows approx. 3 cubic feet per minute to pass. When the car is at cruise and under load, vacuum is reduced, the PCV allows up to 6 cubic feet per minute to pass.

Symptoms of a clogged PCV (or one with an overly restrictive filter) would be a build up of combustion vapor pressure in the crankcase. These gases will attempt any path of escape out of the engine, even thru engine seals, back thru the intake, etc. If the opposite occurs, and the valve sticks open, there is too much flow at idle, and idle becomes rough or engine stalls.

If you overly restrict the flow, as in placing a filter in the path that gets clogged, you can get leaks out the seals.

HOWEVER, the LPE TT cars specifically, require a throttle spring to hold the dipstick down because of crankase pressure (blow-by). Not sure what effect that has on these same seals.

Just my opinion, as always....

F

 

Hey, now that is a clear explanation; Thanks. So it's not too much vacuum, it's not enough vacuum.

A minior point here, but the PCV doesn't pull anything, it just helps keep the gasses flowing in the correct (positive) direction, away from the crankcase.

To answer the other post, the bowl is glass.

 

Noted. To be absolutely correct, vacuum pulls the gases via a positive crankcase ventilation system.

I modified a GReddy oil catch can last year to catch the oil - wish I still had a pic of it - mounted it forward of the radiator on the passenger side. I stuffed a couple pads of coarse steel wool in at the top (inside the catch can), away from the liquid that accumulated at the bottom. Seemed to work really well, and looked pretty cool too.

Ended up taking it out because a) the hose I was using would eventually collapse from the heat and b) the hoses pushed the radiator shroud up just enough to start rubbing the hood.

F


[Modified by Flintstone, 1:56 PM 2/12/2004]

 

I just picked up an air compressor filter from Home Depot and as I was looking at the air flow direction I see that the crank vapors enter the outer bowl then exit the center hole via the small filter. It makes sense that the oil collected is only a table spoons worth. The gasses come into the bowl and the oil collects on the filter. once the filter is saturated the vacuum will draw liquid back into the manifold. If you reverse the air flow so that the crank gasses enter the center hole, are filtered and exit the outer bowl there will be a natural effect to drip off the excess oil via the vacuum suction drawing out a larger area.

I hope this makes sense. I'll set mine up that way to see how it works. The filter was actually designed to capture dust and debries, so they would want that to stay in the larger outer bowl. With an oil separator, there are no large particles to filter, only liquid.

Another idea is to remove the white filter, put on a rubber vac line on the remaining nipple approx. 1/4"-1/2" long and fill the bowl with SS scub pad material to act as a filter. Vapors enter thru the center hole down to the bottom of the bowl, come back up thru the filter and exit the outer ring.

Thoughts anyone?

 

Sorry for my confusion, but why does the cubic feet go up as the vacuum goes down? Thanks.

 

I can see how if you let the oil level get high
enough to touch the filter it would suck the oil
back into the intake....But why let it get that
high? The engine is drawing oil in anyway, so
if you keep it cleaned out it is working right?

:smash:

 

An aircompressor filter also fits under the coil cover. ACE hardware has them for ($24). For boosted apps you'll need a check valve to keep boost out of the crankcase. However I don't think the little filter has enough capacity for the long run.

 

Nice job on the filter. The only problem I see with using the small filter units is not enough air volume. Those small units are designed for compressed air not vacuum. I built my own catch-can out of PVC and rolled up a 4" square foam pad to catch the oil and then it collects in the bottom.

Here is a pic (click to enlarge)

 

What kind of check valve are you using?
Also, where did you run the line that is coming off the front of the passenger side head (that used to go to the inlet on the top of the throttle body)?

Thanks. :cheers:

 

The check valve is from McMaster Carr - Ball Cone Check Valve, 1/4" F X 1/4" F. I got this from Vetterdstr, he happened to have a spare.

The line from the passenger cylinder head cover goes to the aircleaner.

 

I disagree. These filters are designed to catch moisture going into air copressors (a relatively low CFM), not the air coming out. This is to keep the inside of the compressor's air tank from rusting out, therefore it's on the intake (low pressure) side. I haven't seen a standard air compressor yet that has a filter on the high-pressure side.

OK, here's an update: look for an upcoming post by Jason hisse'f on the pressure issue. He put some vacuum gauges to the system that produce some interesting results.

Also, a correction to a previous question: The bowl is plastic, not glass as I thought. Jason has had his on for over 3,000 miles, including Texas heat last summer, with no problem. Heck, even if there were a problem with it being plastic, it's easy to replace. The filter is not the expensive part of this gizmo, it's the anodized aluminum fittings (yes, about $50), the hoses and the labor to machine and polish the angle. For those thinking it is a $75 deal, you will be disappointed in Jason's price.

L8R.

 

Correction. The filter is not designed to prevent rusting of the tank. It is to prevent moisture from being introduced into the tools or paint process. The filter is located between the compressor and the high pressure hose. The only thing on the low pressure side is the fiber air cleaner. These little filters can handle over 100PSI. Mine does.
:cheers:

 

I stand corrected. However, if they can handle 100psi as you said, and the little arrow on the top of the unit is going in the proper air-flow direction, is there really a problem? After all, it will not be anywhere near 100psi, and the PCV is the unit that keeps the air from going backwards.

At the risk of sounding defensive (OK, I am) there seems to be a lot of "this won't work because....." here, when my unit is working just fine and has been for a number of miles; so is Jason's. The oil that I see in there right now (dirty crankcase stuff) is oil that would have been sucked into the intake, correct? Oil that just might affect an emissions test. Soooo, if we have a solution here that helps the situation, why do we hear:
a) too much vacuum (proved to be incorrect)
b) problem with plastic cup (not a problem; 100psi and nothing's melted yet)
c) filter is not made for that (but it works for that)
yadda, yadda?

 

Nope. This is a great idea. I just installed mine on Sunday. The fiber filter I referred to is in the intake airbox of the air compressor. The filter in the moisture filter is perfect for what we need because it is porous enough for vacuum air flow and tight enough for capture of the oil in the vapor. Where I believe the issue is on this filter is that everyone is only collecting a small amount of oil in the container. I believe this happens due to the flow of air thru the filter. Once the small filter is saturated the vacuum will suck the large oil droplets up the center hole as the surface area is reduced in that direction. I reversed the air flow on mine to encourage the oil to be deposited into the bowl and not up the center hole. Check it out and I think you'll understand what I am speaking about. The center hole is like sucking up a straw. any fluid will be drawn up with the air flow.

The filter bowl is strong enough to handle the vacuum as it is compressing the bowl in tighter. When it is used for its intended purpose the pressure is expanding the bowl at 100 PSI . The risk of failure is low as we have it. If the oil deteriorates the plastic over time, it can be replaced cheaply.

On my set up I changed out the PCV valve on the manifold for a McMaster Carr brass check valve. I am in the process of installing a SC from ATI and need something stronger to prevent back flow.



This is a great forum of ideas and we all learn from sharing our thoughts, right, wrong and otherwise. I like to think of it as banging out the rough spots before we touch the car. Just some here seem to take it to heart.