Hoorah :flag

 

Dammit. I was all set to go for the LG setup when I got the GP quote for the Kooks. The price difference (1 7/8-1 7/8) will get me an LS6 intake.... :smash:
The difference between the 1 3/4 Kooks and the LG's will get me pretty close to a FAST intake...
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Is the low end TQ worth it? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

In comparing the torque #'s in those graphs, they are nearly identical. Cary's graph is on a narrower scale, across a greater portion of the width of the dyno chart. While it looks longer and flatter than the Kooks graph, actually plot the numbers as best as you can read them, and they're almost dead nuts - at least, they were when I did it. *shrug*.

The only tough part to see is between 3.5K and 4K, but they both started their pulls at nearly 4000, which isn't real useful for analyzing how much "low end" torque they make, since 4000 is getting into mid and high range.

I'd love to see graphs of both of them starting at around 2000 RPM, going to around 4000 RPM. That'd solve the question of which ones make more torque once and for all.

Seems to me that as far as HP, they're a wash, or very nearly, and for the difference in cost, at that point the Kooks would be a winner.

But, until I can see a graph of the comparative low-end 2K-4K of the 2 sets, I'll be holding onto my money...

-Jake

 

Ahhh, damn... You're right... (edited out my previous statement)

Here's the Excel graph. I took the TQ curves for both models, based on the picstures above, and placed them as best I could. I then used the formula: HP= TQ*RPM/5252 to get the power. In both cases, the max power came out almost identical to the "max power" numbers on the dyno graphs above. So far, so good.

See graph below.


[Modified by Umrswimr, 12:50 PM 3/17/2004]


[Modified by Umrswimr, 1:41 PM 3/17/2004]

 

Yes, it is hard to see both graphs clearly :(

My best guess of the numbers on the graphs is that Cary's starts at 3.8K, right at 350tq. It stays above 350tq until 5.2K RPM.

The other fellow's graph stabilizes at about the same RPM - 3.8K, at just a hair under 350tq - maybe 347 or something. It looks like it drops under to 350 again at about 5K, and by 5.2 looks about 345tq. In any case, both of those numbers are a bit less than the LGM graph.

Cary's car baselined 295.9rwhp/318.0rwtq, and his graph shows the addition of LGM headers and 4-tip Borla stingers. The other fellow started at 289 hp and 302 tq, and still had a stock C5 exhaust, according to Eric Hawkins' post (if the FRC truly was bone stock still - Eric, care to expound on the FRC's mufflers?)

Cary's final results: 350.4rwhp/363.8rwtq = 45.5/45.8
Other guy's results: 340 hp and 357 = 51/55

So, the 1 7/8" Kooks on Eric's buddy's car picked up more power, even without the benefit of the Stingers that Cary also added to his car. C5 exhausts seem to not be worth a heck of a lot of power, but 5-10hp is not unheard of.

[Edit: And, as others have posted (I'm adding for my own edification), Cary's 01 benefits from the LS6 intake that the '99 car does not, as well as the redesigned, torquier late LS1 cam. (I don't have the specs handy, but it was higher lift and less duration, if I recall correctly) Would be interesting to add the LS6 intake and an exhaust to the 99 and see what the results are.]

It's hard to draw a lot more than that, since they were on 2 different cars, 2 different days, 2 different dynos but that's a pretty strong argument that the Kooks do a good job to me. In my specific case, because my car being a '97, the installation cost difference is about $800, Kooks vs LGM headers. That is a 50% price premium, so I would want the results to be markedly better on the LGM's.

But, seeing as how the Kooks were the 1 7/8" Version, there's a big unanswered question of what the curve looked like between 2000-4000RPM, and further, an unanswered question of how different the 1 3/4" Kooks graph looks.

For me, and others I'm sure have different goals/ideas/etc, unless the LGM's absolutley kill the Kooks in that low rev range, it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend the $800, since it looks like, to me, from the data we have, the Kooks are at least the equal of the LGM's from 4000+.

It will be interesting to see some low-end data like that on the LGM headers, and both diameter versions of the Kooks.

Either way - bolting on 40-50hp is absolutely amazing, and it's a great time to be buying headers!

-Jake



[Modified by JakeL, 12:58 PM 3/17/2004]

 

Dammit. Somebody care to host that pic for me? :banghead:


[Modified by Umrswimr, 1:42 PM 3/17/2004]

 

Send to me Paul@corvettemail.com (as long as its not 5mb or bigger :crazy: )

 

Email sent... Thanks! :cheers:

 

Here it goes :thumbs:

 

The difference in power is from the LS6 intake on the LG 01 vs kooks 99, and the borla catback on 01 too.

 

So, based on that chart, it looks like one car put down 10 rwhp acros the board more the the other.

Now the question: Which car had which mods?
Cary's car had a cat-back, the other did not
Cary's car is a '01 (350HP, 375 TQ), the other one was a '00- (345HP, 350TQ)

This really makes things interesting... Given that it's only a 10HP difference, I dunno... I'm starting to think Kooks are at least equal to the LG's for about 2/3 the price... :leaving:

 

Those curves look almost identical. Take into account the 5-10hp if not more gained by the addition of the Borla Stingers, and then the curves would pretty much lay on top of each other. Granted, these were different dynos, different cars, different days, different locations, there are a TON of variables, but I think this is a good "rough evaluation" of performance. Shoot, if we had a dollar for every thread with the subject line asking "Which header" or something relating to that, we could have bought LGs, Kooks, Stainless Works, TPIS, et al., had them installed and paid for dyno time! I'd like to quote LG, as I think this puts it in perspective, "In 100 years no one is going to care what kind of headers you had" Buy what YOU like and enjoy it!!

 

Wow... That's good advice... :yesnod: :yesnod:

 

And which one of us cares about 100 year from now. Its the present that we have to live, and if you buy something that you think its the best and pay hard $$$ for it and ends up just being a hype, you're the one that gets to :banghead:

 

I have the lg's and they are definity worth it it gave huge gains in torque and horsepower :party:

 

The Pro LG LT Header System is no hype. I can not provide any more facts other than the dyno graph but as already pointed out its not indicative of the gains from below 3500 RPMS. However, I assure you, for whatever weight that will hold :crazy: , the low end torque gained from the Pro LG LT Header System is awesome & can not be matched.

- Cary

 

True, however, its your money, no one is forcing you to spend it on a certain header. Do YOUR research and invesitgation and if you pick a crappy header system then who do you blame it on? If you feel like you bought a product that was "hyped" then obviously you didnt do enough research. Lets face it, pretty much most header systems are going to give you at least 20-30 hp/tq, and they all pretty much give you a better system than the stock manifolds. Some headers respond different to different cars, otherwise everyone would have the exact same everything....cam, heads, headers, etc. Oh well...If you have made the decision to buy headers, then you are taking a chance either way. You really wil never know how they will perform until they are bolted up to YOUR car....and you can always sell them and buy another system down the road...

 

:skep: :eek: :nono: So that's where that new power came from! :lol: :thumbs: Are you running the hi flo cats or the race pipe? :confused: :D

 

...race pipe? The X-pipe, you mean?
Wow, my Pro LG LT Off Road Header System came with a race pipe :jester


[Modified by Cary, 8:57 PM 3/17/2004]

 

I like my 350.4rwhp/363.8rwtq better. Plus, looks like my dyno graph has a better flat curve which equal low & mid power gains. Compare the blue lines on both graphs. Oops, hope I did not start a flame war.
:nono: Not a fair comparison. Mine still had stock air filter and mufflers.