It's clear that in terms of performance (at any cost) that generally speaking, the bigger the cam the better. In terms of a true, almost daily driven street car, at what point do you think that the valvetrain wear/dependability starts to outweigh the performance.
For example; on a LS1 with stock heads, would I gain enough hp going from say a 224/563 to a 224/581 to make it worth the extra wear on the valvetrain?
While I want to increase the hp of the car, it is also extremly important to maintain it's dependability for those long weekend trips.
Bottom Line...What do you think is the largest cam you can run on the street and still have a dependable, fun car with no real downsides
I have most of the bolt ons including an SY3500

 

Exactly what I wanted to get some opinions on! :lurk:

 

:lurk:

 

I was gonna get the 224/563/114,but talked to trevor at TSP & he said the 224/581/115 should not be a problem he recomended dual springs so I ordered the whole package,I got stock heads & KOOKS header system

 

MTI B1........then buy the killer heads!
:chevy

 

A 224/581 uses a much more aggressive lobe than a 224/563. Hence, it will put a stronger load on the springs. The .581lift cam would probably make another 10-15 hp with a more significant impact in the midrange because of the increased average lift. If you are not using dual springs right now then I would strongly consider them as they provide insurance from catastrophic damage should you get a broken spring. There are dual spring setups, like the REV 1116, which do not require machining of the heads that are available. I do not know if you can really say exactly how much reliability you will lose compared to your present setup but it will be less reliable and whether the trade off is worth it is something only you can decide.

There are other camshaft options, especially if you do not have to pass a sniffer. If your present cam is on a 114 LSA then you could go to a 112 LSA and with good tuning you would likely still pass smog and would show about the same gains as a 224/581. If you do not have to pass smog then you could go with something like a 228/571, which uses a lobe that is only about as aggressive as you have now. The average lift because of the increased duration would be about the same as a 224/581. Because you are using stock heads, I do not believe there would be much difference in peak hp between the 228/571 cam and the 224/581 cam. The 228/571 cam on a 112 LSA would be a nice way to go if you do not have to worry about smog. This would add another 10-15 hp over a 114 and although the idle would have a bit of a lope to it compared to a 114, with good tuning it should not be an issue.

 

i goin with a 228/230 on a 114 and plan to be reliable

 

I don't think going to the higher lift will be worthwhile. Gains would be very small. LS1's respond better to more duration. You also have to keep in mind that you have an A4 which is harder to tune with a big cam, unless you have a higher stall converter.


[Modified by gojo, 3:19 PM 4/10/2004]

 

Thanks guys, that's some great info.
So anotherwords, I can go with more duration (say 228) and not use extreme lift (571 or lower) and get about the same hp with less wear and, as a result, better dependability? Will the higher duration move the peak power up the RPM scale?
In regards to LSA. I do not have any smog tests here, so that is not an issue. Is the 112 the way to go over the 114. I had read that the autos needed to use a 114 for the idle quality. I have a SY3500 stall.
Thanks again :steering:

 

More duration tends to give you more top end power at the expense of the low end. A 112 LSA will shift the power band of the cam a bit lower in the RPM range compared to a 114.

As far as idle quality goes, a 228 with a 112 LSA will have a bit of a lope to it and will definitely sound like you have a cam. If you had a stock converter then it might become annoying to have the car idle in gear but I don’t think it would be a problem with the SY3500.

It is kind of a subjective thing though and if you could find someone in your area with a similar setup then you could judge for yourself :cheers:

 

I like the idea of the increased duration and reduced lift theory. It seems that would give good power without the aggressive lift that could break valvetrain components.
The only question I am still unclear on is the LSA. It would seem to be of benifit to go with a 112 to shift the power range down, but I don't want a car that is a pain to drive in traffic. Not only do I like to go on trips, I actually do 2-3 parades (I know) every year. It would be bad to be fighting the idle all the way. Is the 112 this bad of an issue?

 

A big cam DOES NOT hurt reliability.

I have had a .634 lift cam for 11 months and over 15,000 miles now w/o even one problem.

The key is to buy some good springs and retainers.

 

Thanks kumar75150 for the reassurance on big cams :thumbs: This week I'm taking my C5 to LGM for install of the G5X-3 lsa 114 Cam w/Cam Pkg. that includes GM Timing Chain, LS1 Gaskets, Comp 921 Dual Valve Springs, Chromoly Push Rods, and Titanium Retainers. My 01' C5 has almost 30K miles, so even though some say don't change the timing chain I like the added insurance of knowing a new one is being installed. Besides, Godspeed (Jeremy) is an awesome tuner and says he will make sure he tunes my baby in a very streetable manner.

 

In terms of a true, almost daily driven street car, at what point do you think that the valvetrain wear/dependability starts to outweigh the performance.
For example; on a LS1 with stock heads, would I gain enough hp going from say a 224/563

IMO I think you answered your own question...

Daily driver ...go with 224/224 .563 lift 114lsa (dual spring kit a good idea too as valve train is weak area on these cars...better to over build imo..)

 

I have that cam on a 112 and have driven it daily :yesnod:

You can run some large cams reliably but you have to select good springs. Also lift is not everything ramp rates can also change spring life. Futral does not run Comp lobes on his cams. The TEA heads come with Comp 987s. Futral says the 228/230 will run great on Comp 918s singles.

 

Also remeber that lighter valves have less wear/tear on drivetrain than heavier ones (think LS6 head sodium filled valves).

I went through this same question prior to my package, and found that for every significant jump in cam I found a concern for reliability. Bear in mind though this reliability absolutely depends on the car, driver, and conditions (street minimum high RPM use vs. track, etc.).

Speaking generally, the bigger the cam the more stress on springs-no way around that unless they are biult to take it. Now good springs can last on a mondo cam forever :thumbs: or break during your first 7,000 rpm shift :eek: Their was a run on an unamed company that recently had problems with their dual springs. It does happen-but pretty rare considering all the mondo cams here.

That being said, if you are vigilant and utilize high quality dual springs, freshen the springs every say 10-30K, etc. you start putting the odds back in your favor for power and reliability. :cheers:

 

I would have to agree with you on that. What hurts reliability is using the wrong products during a build. Over 600 lift on mine and not one issue. ;)
A big cam DOES NOT hurt reliability.
I have had a .634 lift cam for 11 months and over 15,000 miles now w/o even one problem.

The key is to buy some good springs and retainers.

 

I think it will wind up being being a purly "objective" decision on what is considered reliable/streetable.
I have had two, 10 second vettes in the past (1 C3 & 1 C4) Both were a bear to drive on the street. (Overheated in traffic, idled poorly, and high maintance) The technology has changed a lot now, and it's possible to have a fast car that is truly "streetable". The cam is proably the primary key to that drivability. Thanks for all the replys and e-mails. :thumbs:

 

I agree, I have a G5X2, the car is not my daily driver, but I would have no concerns driving it every day. It has been great. I love the power and the sound.

Since you are going with a big stall, I think you will be fine with the idle.

I plan to put new springs on again when I hit 30K on the springs. This would be the only thing which would concern me if I were putting a lot of miles on the car, you might have to change the springs every 1 to 2 years.

 

Bottle Fed, I went with a 220/553/114 low lift cam, and stock 2002 Z06 heads for the same reliability reasoning that you are after.
I would have rather had the the same cam but with the .581 HIGH lift lobes on it. But then I would have had to use stronger springs and CHANGE them out every 20 to 30k miles.
My goal is 100, 000 miles or more on the engine with no problems and no maintenance except oil and filter changes. So I guess it depends on what you mean by reliability. I mean the same as a stock Z06.
I agree with the others, a bigger cam should not be any GREAT amount worse for reliability as long as you are willing keep refreshing it with new springs.
But from a purely common sense engineering standpoint, a stronger spring or dual springs, packed into the same amount of space, and working harder because of the increased lift and duration, WILL have a shorter life and be more prone to break anytime, than a stock set-up. Perhaps not by that much, but my best engineering teachers always said, "you can't get something for nothing."