What causes wheel hop
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge LA
What causes wheel hop
I have a 99 6-spd vert. I changed to a spec II clutch and still experence chatter after about 3000 miles. I have also noticed that I now get wheel hop when trying to rip 2nd. I first thought it was chatter, but from what I have read here it is wheel hop. I had lower the rear about 2" and thought that might be the problem. But just now replaced the longer bolts back to with the stock and still have hop. I also noticed that one of my rear axel seals is leaking, but can't see how this would effect anything wheel hop. Any suggestions?
Sorry, I have a Spec III.
Sorry, I have a Spec III.
Last edited by luv2golf; Nov 10, 2004 at 07:10 AM.
Collections Hold
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 6
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
There are a number of contributing factors that can induce wheel-hop with any one or more of them in concert to determine the severity of the condition.
Oversimplified:
- Tire selection (hard rubber is VERY poor~ala EMT tires)
- Tire pressure (this one is obvious...)
- Ride height (lowering without correcting alignment angles properly)
- Improperly adjusted dynamic (not static) alignment angles (see above)
- Suspension bushing type (O.E. rubber bushings are VERY POOR)
- Chassis/driveline flex (torsional twisting of driveline under heavy load)
- Pinion angle irregularities under load (see above~ differential strut aids in preventing this)
Any one, or all of these in tandem WILL induce the cause-and-effect wheel hop problem you question and most people either don't know how to correct it, or don't think they need too for whatever reason. Unfortunataly, most folks would rather spend their money on go-fast components, rather than components that add durability that have no power increase claim.
Best Regards,
DTE
Oversimplified:
- Tire selection (hard rubber is VERY poor~ala EMT tires)
- Tire pressure (this one is obvious...)
- Ride height (lowering without correcting alignment angles properly)
- Improperly adjusted dynamic (not static) alignment angles (see above)
- Suspension bushing type (O.E. rubber bushings are VERY POOR)
- Chassis/driveline flex (torsional twisting of driveline under heavy load)
- Pinion angle irregularities under load (see above~ differential strut aids in preventing this)
Any one, or all of these in tandem WILL induce the cause-and-effect wheel hop problem you question and most people either don't know how to correct it, or don't think they need too for whatever reason. Unfortunataly, most folks would rather spend their money on go-fast components, rather than components that add durability that have no power increase claim.
Best Regards,
DTE
Last edited by DTE Powertrain; Nov 8, 2004 at 08:33 PM.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge LA
Originally Posted by DynoTech Engineering
There are a number of contributing factors that can induce wheel-hop with any one or more of them in concert to determine the severity of the condition.
Oversimplified:
- Tire selection (hard rubber is VERY poor~ala EMT tires)
- Tire pressure (this one is obvious...)
- Ride height (lowering without correcting alignment angles properly)
- Improperly adjusted dynamic (not static) alignment angles (see above)
- Suspension bushing type (O.E. rubber bushings are VERY POOR)
- Chassis/driveline flex (torsional twisting of driveline under heavy load)
- Pinion angle irregularities under load (see above~ differential strut aids in preventing this)
Any one, or all of these in tandem WILL induce the cause-and-effect wheel hop problem you question and most people either don't know how to correct it, or don't think they need too for whatever reason. Unfortunataly, most folks would rather spend their money on go-fast components, rather than components that add durability that have no power increase claim.
Best Regards,
DTE
Oversimplified:
- Tire selection (hard rubber is VERY poor~ala EMT tires)
- Tire pressure (this one is obvious...)
- Ride height (lowering without correcting alignment angles properly)
- Improperly adjusted dynamic (not static) alignment angles (see above)
- Suspension bushing type (O.E. rubber bushings are VERY POOR)
- Chassis/driveline flex (torsional twisting of driveline under heavy load)
- Pinion angle irregularities under load (see above~ differential strut aids in preventing this)
Any one, or all of these in tandem WILL induce the cause-and-effect wheel hop problem you question and most people either don't know how to correct it, or don't think they need too for whatever reason. Unfortunataly, most folks would rather spend their money on go-fast components, rather than components that add durability that have no power increase claim.
Best Regards,
DTE
Thanks for all the help so far, any further input...keep it coming.
Collections Hold
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 6
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
As we stated before, re-aligning the car to stock, static alignment specs. is not nearly good enough, especially when the car is lowered and one visits the race track. That is why we also stated to dynamically align the car for correct wheel alignment geometry while the chassis is under load, such as launching the car.
If you want to verify what we're talking about, all you have to do is watch any particular IRS-type vehicle (especially the Corvette) launching from the line closely and you'll see the wheel alignment skew completely out of spec. (usually bad enough to see visually very clearly) the moment the car's weight distribution shifts rearward and the chassis squats down onto the tires. The car may be properly aligned statically when at rest which is fine, but the moment the chassis transfers weight, you instantly see the dynamic alignment go out of spec. violently and the car leaves the line in a non-linear fashion~ ala wheel hop, crooked, sideways, etc...... THIS very condition is what eventually leads to broken drivetrain components.
Most serious drag racers already know this and compensate for it, that's why you see at any given track that racer #1 run much faster when their engine combination makes less power than racer #2. That folks is dynamically setting the chassis up correctly to where the car works with the engine's power, not against it.
Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....
Best Regards,
DTE
If you want to verify what we're talking about, all you have to do is watch any particular IRS-type vehicle (especially the Corvette) launching from the line closely and you'll see the wheel alignment skew completely out of spec. (usually bad enough to see visually very clearly) the moment the car's weight distribution shifts rearward and the chassis squats down onto the tires. The car may be properly aligned statically when at rest which is fine, but the moment the chassis transfers weight, you instantly see the dynamic alignment go out of spec. violently and the car leaves the line in a non-linear fashion~ ala wheel hop, crooked, sideways, etc...... THIS very condition is what eventually leads to broken drivetrain components.
Most serious drag racers already know this and compensate for it, that's why you see at any given track that racer #1 run much faster when their engine combination makes less power than racer #2. That folks is dynamically setting the chassis up correctly to where the car works with the engine's power, not against it.
Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....
Best Regards,
DTE
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 198
Likes: 1
From: Olive Branch MS
Originally Posted by DynoTech Engineering
As we stated before, re-aligning the car to stock, static alignment specs. is not nearly good enough, especially when the car is lowered and one visits the race track. That is why we also stated to dynamically align the car for correct wheel alignment geometry while the chassis is under load, such as launching the car.
If you want to verify what we're talking about, all you have to do is watch any particular IRS-type vehicle (especially the Corvette) launching from the line closely and you'll see the wheel alignment skew completely out of spec. (usually bad enough to see visually very clearly) the moment the car's weight distribution shifts rearward and the chassis squats down onto the tires. The car may be properly aligned statically when at rest which is fine, but the moment the chassis transfers weight, you instantly see the dynamic alignment go out of spec. violently and the car leaves the line in a non-linear fashion~ ala wheel hop, crooked, sideways, etc...... THIS very condition is what eventually leads to broken drivetrain components.
Most serious drag racers already know this and compensate for it, that's why you see at any given track that racer #1 run much faster when their engine combination makes less power than racer #2. That folks is dynamically setting the chassis up correctly to where the car works with the engine's power, not against it.
Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....
Best Regards,
DTE
If you want to verify what we're talking about, all you have to do is watch any particular IRS-type vehicle (especially the Corvette) launching from the line closely and you'll see the wheel alignment skew completely out of spec. (usually bad enough to see visually very clearly) the moment the car's weight distribution shifts rearward and the chassis squats down onto the tires. The car may be properly aligned statically when at rest which is fine, but the moment the chassis transfers weight, you instantly see the dynamic alignment go out of spec. violently and the car leaves the line in a non-linear fashion~ ala wheel hop, crooked, sideways, etc...... THIS very condition is what eventually leads to broken drivetrain components.
Most serious drag racers already know this and compensate for it, that's why you see at any given track that racer #1 run much faster when their engine combination makes less power than racer #2. That folks is dynamically setting the chassis up correctly to where the car works with the engine's power, not against it.
Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....
Best Regards,
DTE
Did I get any of that right?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge LA
Originally Posted by DynoTech Engineering
As we stated before, re-aligning the car to stock, static alignment specs. is not nearly good enough, especially when the car is lowered and one visits the race track. That is why we also stated to dynamically align the car for correct wheel alignment geometry while the chassis is under load, such as launching the car.
If you want to verify what we're talking about, all you have to do is watch any particular IRS-type vehicle (especially the Corvette) launching from the line closely and you'll see the wheel alignment skew completely out of spec. (usually bad enough to see visually very clearly) the moment the car's weight distribution shifts rearward and the chassis squats down onto the tires. The car may be properly aligned statically when at rest which is fine, but the moment the chassis transfers weight, you instantly see the dynamic alignment go out of spec. violently and the car leaves the line in a non-linear fashion~ ala wheel hop, crooked, sideways, etc...... THIS very condition is what eventually leads to broken drivetrain components.
Most serious drag racers already know this and compensate for it, that's why you see at any given track that racer #1 run much faster when their engine combination makes less power than racer #2. That folks is dynamically setting the chassis up correctly to where the car works with the engine's power, not against it.
Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....
Best Regards,
DTE
If you want to verify what we're talking about, all you have to do is watch any particular IRS-type vehicle (especially the Corvette) launching from the line closely and you'll see the wheel alignment skew completely out of spec. (usually bad enough to see visually very clearly) the moment the car's weight distribution shifts rearward and the chassis squats down onto the tires. The car may be properly aligned statically when at rest which is fine, but the moment the chassis transfers weight, you instantly see the dynamic alignment go out of spec. violently and the car leaves the line in a non-linear fashion~ ala wheel hop, crooked, sideways, etc...... THIS very condition is what eventually leads to broken drivetrain components.
Most serious drag racers already know this and compensate for it, that's why you see at any given track that racer #1 run much faster when their engine combination makes less power than racer #2. That folks is dynamically setting the chassis up correctly to where the car works with the engine's power, not against it.
Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....
Best Regards,
DTE
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Originally Posted by DynoTech Engineering
Unfortunataly, most folks would rather spend their money on go-fast components, rather than components that add durability that have no power increase claim.
and
Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....
Best Regards,
DTE
and
Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....
Best Regards,
DTE
Well said. Along with seat time, seat time, and more seat time
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 884
Likes: 1
From: McKinney TX
Originally Posted by Robert56
Shocks can help/hurt wheel hop also. I understand that the 2004 Z06 has shocks that can minimize/eliminate wheel hop?
I think it's just inherent with high HP and independent suspension--->bad combo for drag racing.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 14,542
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by DynoTech Engineering
... Unfortunately, it's the American way of thinking to just *overpower* the chassis in an effort to make it quicker down the track, all the while spending a TON of money to do it and breaking a lot of parts along the way...
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....Best Regards,DTE
There is much more to making a car fast down the 1320 (or on the road for that matter) than brutally trying to do it with power when the chassis is not set up to handle it....Best Regards,DTE
"You have to grin and bear the gut-wrenching, axle-hopping launch to make the Porsche go its quickest, but the 911 seems to outperform its spec sheet. The power-to-weight ratio is 23 percent poorer than the Vette's, but the 911's rear weight bias keeps things close until speeds rise. At 60 mph, the Porsche's 4.3-second time is only 0.2 second slower than the Vette's..."
(from this month's Car & Driver comparison test of the C6 and the new 911)
It appears the German engineers are also using the wrong alignment settings and bad bushings -- what a crock on that kind of a car, and with their engineering experience to boot.
