I really hope this isn't so!!! Any aftermarket vendors out there that can address this? Bushings? I'm sure I'm not the only one wanting slightly better steering feel.

 

My 99 Regal GS has Magnasteer II. If I disable it(disconnect the harness), there's less boost at lower speeds, and it's overboosted at higher speeds. It reminds me of a non power assisted rack in parking lots, but on the parkway it feels like a caddy. It may help for auto-x, but would be bad for road racing.

 

There's a bunch of things at play here. First thing is that the steering hardware is soft mounted to minimize vibration transfer to the steering wheel. Also the rubber bushings are of different durameters in the front and rear of the control arms...well, except for the upper front control arm because that one is an aluminum pin bushing.

If you just want more road feel thru the steering wheel, you shouldn't need to do anything with your tires or Magnasteer, just do the bushings. If you want increased steering effort, then you could do tires, Magnasteer and even a smaller steering wheel. If you want it to turn in better you could do mass reduction, bushings, alignment. It really depends on what you want. Since steering is so important to you, and I know you want to get it right, you should read the 1997 SAE pubs about the Corvette.

 

Volume 1; page 2-191; Left Column about halfway down
Variable Effort Steering Description
The scan tool can be used to adjust the amount of steering assist if the customer requests. The steering assist has 3 setting:
Factory calibration
More Firm
Less Firm

I agree that the programming cannot be changed, but the dealer CAN adjust the system to your needs. It may or maynot be what you are looking for, but worth a try.

 

Good homework. I swear, one of these days I'm going to scan the manual in so I can find answers like this in with a simple Ctrl+F.

 

Sorry, but GM specifically addressed this, and sent out a retraction to its dealer network, saying that the docs were in error in the claim that this system's settings can be altered w/ a Tech II (or any scanning tool). It can not. You are out of luck on this one.

 

Did not know this... Thanks for the info, Dan.

 

Scratch that off my list of reasons to get my own Tech II...

Hopefully I can still use it disable the light & errors after I remove my airbag(s), turn off the tire pressure sensor messages and......dangit, I need another "and"! Actually, like a dozen more. Those Tech II's are far from cheap!

 

I had just started looking into a used Tech II, until I read that the manual was wrong. Oh well.

It sounds like the rubber bushings are the things I need to tackle first. Any recommendations on where I can get these? Also, would you happen to have a link to the "1997 SAE pubs about the Corvette"? My google search didn't come up with any direct links.

I will report back to the forum with results of the bushing modification.

Thanks!

 

Undecided, the bushings are available separately from VB&P, a sponsor here. VB&P bushings are urethane, not rubber, and will probably squeek. If you go urethane, I believe VB&P is the only viable option. VB&P bushings come with the internal metal bushings. Other bushings like Energy require cutting the old internal bushing out to reuse, which is a MAJOR PITA! The VB&P bushings are already difficult to install, but still much easier than Energy.

Another option is to get the T1 control arms. The T1 control arms have stiffer rubber bushings already installed, and are the only way to get T1 bushings.

Global West makes Delrin bushings, but I don't believe they make Delrin bushings for the C5 yet.

LG uses metal spherical bushings, but if they sell them, they aren't advertising it. Give Lou a call and ask. The metal spherical bushings are going to be very noisy. Remember when I said a 20 dB noise reduction from the bushings? Eliminating that reduction will make the suspension anywhere from at least 2x as loud, to more than 3x as loud.

I don't have a direct link to the SAE pub, but going to www.sae.org reveals a search box at the top of the window. Type in "SP-1282" and it'll come right up. It cost me about $25. Try it again with "Corvette" as the search parameter. You'll see a couple other SAE pubs not included in SP-1282, and a bunch of SAE pubs coming out for the next Z06.

 

Once you get used to it the handling and turn in response on the C5 is very crisp. you are comparing two cars that are smaller and lighter and narrower than the Vette, what do you expect? When you drive harder and faster the magnasteer tightens up your steering and it starts feeling much better. After 120 the steering is very solid. I would stop comparing those cars because their suspensions are set up differently.

I find when making a lane change at 45 the car is alittle vague because the magnasteer has speed parameters that have it reacting with the same amount of assist then say 35 or 55. But I found from my observation that the assist kind of stays the same at certain speeds and then tightens after a certain speed like, say you are doing 90, and you punch it and do 120 the assist is tighter but it stays kind the same until 140 and then at 150 or 160 the steering is rock tight! So to sum it up this car was designed to to be driven fast, and the faster you go, the steering starts feeling alot better. You cant judge the car by a 45 mph turn in or lane change. Also this cars has so many sensors and stuff that sometimes doing the same turn will feel much better on a different day because of the temp of the road surface or the way the grooves and tread of your tire contacted the road, or just the slight difference in the way you turned in from other days, etc. IMHO, you should just put some adjustable shocks in and leave the suspension alone, it is awesome enough. Too tight and you could spin out without any warning, Good luck anyway

 

What year manual do you have? My 97 manual only goes to page 2-118 which happens to be blank.
Bill

 

My expectation is to obtain similar handling precision while driving in the 30 to 60 mph range. I can't imagine that many folks are taking corners or making hard maneuvers in the 120 to 160+ mph range.... are they?

T1 control arms -- anyone install just these without going with the full T1 setup?

 

Some autocrossers do it. JakeL is one person I know of. The T1 control arms are the same as any other C5 control arm, it just has the stiffer bushings in them.

You talk about feel and handling as if they are the same thing. While I'm with you on the steering feeling light at low speeds, but autocrossing is low speed, and I have zero complaints about the steering between 15-60 mph during autocrosses, and I did one track event where speeds were between 30-100 mph, and the steering felt great too.

If you don't mind the extra noise, and can stand extra harshness, just go for the VBP bushing kit.

Seriously though, you should do more studying before you make drastic changes. Bushings don't seem like much, but they change every aspect of handing and ride. I know I can't say I know enough to make drastic changes. So far I've only done T1 swaybars, fully knowing that they were going to add understeer with a stock wheel/tire setup. I'm also upgrading the springs, knowing it's still a compromise setup aimed for both mid 150 mph open race racing and low speed autocrosses. I haven't fully analyzed the effects of a bushing swap, but I know the options are T1, Delrin and metal sperical bushings. The last two I'd probably have to make myself unless I have get LG to sell whatever they're using to me. I also know if I'm going to mess with super stiff bushings, I'm going to nail the handling down to a tee, so that means using a bump steer kit and putting the car on a rack to check the geometry changes throughout the entire range of motion. If I'm going to install the parts that can take the suspension to the max, I'm going to use it to take it there instead of installing it and hoping for the max.

If you insist on getting max road feel and effort, install metal spherical bushings all around. Install tires with 30 series aspect or less in front, and get them wide and sticky. Check the camber rate changes throughout the range of motion for the front and rear wheels, and change to suit, remembering that you'll need less camber because the bushings won't distort anymore. Turn the caster down a couple notches and set toe to zero. Install a hard mount for the rear tie rod, and then set rear toe to zero as well. Check the "Chassis stiffness" thread in the Autocross forum and implement some of the ideas there. Take weight, a lot of weight out of the car. You can get to 2,800 lbs and still have a street legal car. You can probably get down to 2,600 lbs with a car that "looks" street legal. Do all this, and you'll have a car that'll make the term "riding on rails" sound loose and plush.

 

 

Err.. Why? I have documents stating that it is not possible to make modifications to the Magnasteer system.. If you don't have real-world proof to the contrary, please don't confuse the issue w/ misinformation.

 

Dan, why read the full thread or add more information to the thread when it's soo simple to click the Reply with Quote button, the I Agree icon, and then Submit Reply button? Dan, I'd ask if you could scan a copy over to me, but seeing as how I don't have a Tech II, it'd be pointless. I'll take your word for it, thank you for posting something meaningful.

Eugene

 

No problem! FWIW, I was a bit disappointed that the system was not adjustable, although I may be the one person on this forum who's C5 steering is too heavy; I feel it definitely limits the "flick-ability" of the car, and I wish I could adjust it down.. I need to go through the manual and understand exactly how the system works, and maybe figure out a way to make it adjustable (varying the applied voltage to the circuit, etc.)

 

I agree with you Dan, that the steering is too heavy at low speeds. I improved it a bit with NRF tires at 34 PSI. The TI rotors really improved the steering/cornering response. If you fiqure out a way to adjust the assist on the Magnasteer, please contact me.

 

How have those Red Devil rotors been holding up?