Habitual Complainers
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
Originally Posted by cmb13
If I were a moderator, I'd say,
"That was a great debate. Goodnight!
"
And that would be that.
"That was a great debate. Goodnight!
"And that would be that.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...65&forum_id=74
This guy is trying to get out of a 350Z and get a C6. Notice how he says that he will be "upgrading."
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 15
From: Grant-Valkaria Florida
I don't care what anybody says; To each his own, Opinions are like a--h---s, (you know the rest), so on and so on.....
I love my C-6 and I KNOW to find another car that can perform half as good you're looking at twice the money - and you CAN'T find another car that LOOKS THIS GOOD!!!!
Bye!
I love my C-6 and I KNOW to find another car that can perform half as good you're looking at twice the money - and you CAN'T find another car that LOOKS THIS GOOD!!!!
Bye!
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas Location: Earth
Originally Posted by cmb13
I'm not sure how that's possible - mine stickered at $63,555; mine's pretty much loaded. 1SB, Power Top, Nav, Z51, Mag Red, Polished Wheels, On Star, XM....what else could I have gotten to push it up by $7k? Automatic? Was F55 that much more than Z51? That's it.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
From: springtown tx
Originally Posted by DP Dave
I am amazed at the number of people that are always complaining about the incrediable C6. Complaints about the interior, paint, brakes, nav system and the list goes on. For the money this American built sports car is the best value on the planet! Of course the interior and exterior could be upgraded however with upgrades the cost would rise!
A base C6 starts at less than $50K and one loaded will go out the door at $60K. Show me anything comparable and I will retract this thread.
Thanks to Dave Hill and his team for making this world class C6 available for such a reasonable price!!
A base C6 starts at less than $50K and one loaded will go out the door at $60K. Show me anything comparable and I will retract this thread.
Thanks to Dave Hill and his team for making this world class C6 available for such a reasonable price!!
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Race Director
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,024
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by DP Dave
I am amazed at the number of people that are always complaining about the incrediable C6. Complaints about the interior, paint, brakes, nav system and the list goes on. For the money this American built sports car is the best value on the planet! Of course the interior and exterior could be upgraded however with upgrades the cost would rise!
A base C6 starts at less than $50K and one loaded will go out the door at $60K. Show me anything comparable and I will retract this thread.
Thanks to Dave Hill and his team for making this world class C6 available for such a reasonable price!!
A base C6 starts at less than $50K and one loaded will go out the door at $60K. Show me anything comparable and I will retract this thread.
Thanks to Dave Hill and his team for making this world class C6 available for such a reasonable price!!
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,874
Likes: 68
From: Rochester Hills Michigan
Complaints
This is my 10th Vette and by far the best car I have every had. Could it be better......no doubt it could and will be as the C6 model years continue. The one thing I remember about all my Vettes is that I absolutely loved driving them and the C6 is really easy to love to drive. There is nothing wrong with people discussing the issues that bother them or stuff they don't like, it's what the forum is for. BUT there is also nothing wrong with those of us who think it's one GREAT CAR. Thanks DH and GM and mark me down for an 07 
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,973
Likes: 55
From: OIB North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by shopdog
We complain because we care. They could have done so much better, and in many cases for less cost too. In most cases, the things we complain about in the Corvette are done better on less expensive cars.
GM has already demonstrated that they can do better without driving up costs. They removed the steering column lock and the requirement to shift to reverse in the 2006 models. They've acknowledged their mistake with the bus steering wheel in the '05. Etc. But there is much more they can do, and do inexpensively, to make the car better.
For starters, they can key the harmonic dampener to the crank as 93,000,000 previous generation small blocks were made (15 cents), they can eliminate the god awful Bose system and replace it with a decent (yet inexpensive) true stereo sound system as is found in many less expensive cars.
They can unload many of the functions from the left stalk, moving lighting controls to the dash and the cruise to buttons on the steering wheel. While they're at it, they can give us better steering feel (see the less expensive 350Z for how to do these things right).
They can dump the troublesome keyless start system and give us a reliable proven ignition key. Even inexpensive cars have smooth easy shifting manual transmissions, we should have that too. Etc.
We aren't asking for anything that would make the car more expensive. In almost all cases, we're just asking for things to be done better, same as they are on other, less expensive, cars.
GM has already demonstrated that they can do better without driving up costs. They removed the steering column lock and the requirement to shift to reverse in the 2006 models. They've acknowledged their mistake with the bus steering wheel in the '05. Etc. But there is much more they can do, and do inexpensively, to make the car better.
For starters, they can key the harmonic dampener to the crank as 93,000,000 previous generation small blocks were made (15 cents), they can eliminate the god awful Bose system and replace it with a decent (yet inexpensive) true stereo sound system as is found in many less expensive cars.
They can unload many of the functions from the left stalk, moving lighting controls to the dash and the cruise to buttons on the steering wheel. While they're at it, they can give us better steering feel (see the less expensive 350Z for how to do these things right).
They can dump the troublesome keyless start system and give us a reliable proven ignition key. Even inexpensive cars have smooth easy shifting manual transmissions, we should have that too. Etc.
We aren't asking for anything that would make the car more expensive. In almost all cases, we're just asking for things to be done better, same as they are on other, less expensive, cars.
However, we also vote with our pocketbook and we keep buying them (my 5th one), so we only do this to ourselves...
I don't think ANYONE who bought a 30K Acura, 28K Honda, or a 25K Nissian would put up with any of the issues that have surfaced, not only on the C6, but C5, C4 etc... But we do...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 823
Likes: 182
From: Plymouth MI
Originally Posted by shopdog
We complain because we care. They could have done so much better, and in many cases for less cost too. In most cases, the things we complain about in the Corvette are done better on less expensive cars.
GM has already demonstrated that they can do better without driving up costs. They removed the steering column lock and the requirement to shift to reverse in the 2006 models. They've acknowledged their mistake with the bus steering wheel in the '05. Etc. But there is much more they can do, and do inexpensively, to make the car better.
For starters, they can key the harmonic dampener to the crank as 93,000,000 previous generation small blocks were made (15 cents), they can eliminate the god awful Bose system and replace it with a decent (yet inexpensive) true stereo sound system as is found in many less expensive cars.
They can unload many of the functions from the left stalk, moving lighting controls to the dash and the cruise to buttons on the steering wheel. While they're at it, they can give us better steering feel (see the less expensive 350Z for how to do these things right).
They can dump the troublesome keyless start system and give us a reliable proven ignition key. Even inexpensive cars have smooth easy shifting manual transmissions, we should have that too. Etc.
We aren't asking for anything that would make the car more expensive. In almost all cases, we're just asking for things to be done better, same as they are on other, less expensive, cars.
GM has already demonstrated that they can do better without driving up costs. They removed the steering column lock and the requirement to shift to reverse in the 2006 models. They've acknowledged their mistake with the bus steering wheel in the '05. Etc. But there is much more they can do, and do inexpensively, to make the car better.
For starters, they can key the harmonic dampener to the crank as 93,000,000 previous generation small blocks were made (15 cents), they can eliminate the god awful Bose system and replace it with a decent (yet inexpensive) true stereo sound system as is found in many less expensive cars.
They can unload many of the functions from the left stalk, moving lighting controls to the dash and the cruise to buttons on the steering wheel. While they're at it, they can give us better steering feel (see the less expensive 350Z for how to do these things right).
They can dump the troublesome keyless start system and give us a reliable proven ignition key. Even inexpensive cars have smooth easy shifting manual transmissions, we should have that too. Etc.
We aren't asking for anything that would make the car more expensive. In almost all cases, we're just asking for things to be done better, same as they are on other, less expensive, cars.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,439
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix Arizona
Originally Posted by shopdog
I'm not mad at anyone. I am a bit irritated at the constant stream of apologists who say fixing the car's imperfections would "cost more", or that "they spent the money on performance so the rest of the car suffered." What I'm trying to say is that's not true.
Most of the things people have complained about are not a function of lack of money spent by GM, and most of them could be fixed without spending more money. As I've tried to indicate, in many cases the designers and engineers choose solutions that are inferior to other solutions that cost less. The constant drumbeat that we must accept the car the way it is because it was the only way to get it at the price for which it is sold is just wrong.
I've offered some examples of solutions that cost less, but work better, which have been implemented in other cars and trucks. In response, the apologists tell me to "buy the other car". For most of the examples, I already own the other car. That's called first hand knowledge.
If you want a list of the shortcomings of those other cars, I can list them too. But that's not the point. It isn't a matter of either/or, it is a matter of illustrating that the Corvette's designers and engineers did have other choices, choices that wouldn't have increased the cost of the Corvette, but would have resulted in a better car.
Now you haven't seen me complain about the paint. I know the difficulties of painting fiberglass with low VOC paints. They did the best they could. It might not be perfect, but I accept it because they did do the best they could short of hand color sanding every car, which I will be the first to admit would have cost more. There are other things like that on the car which are as good as they could make them given the price target they were trying to meet. That's not what I'm talking about here.
What I've been talking about are things they could have done differently to make the car better without costing more. That list is fairly long. These are things I want to see them address in future cars, so when I go to buy a 2008 or 2012 Corvette, the car will be better.
Most of the things people have complained about are not a function of lack of money spent by GM, and most of them could be fixed without spending more money. As I've tried to indicate, in many cases the designers and engineers choose solutions that are inferior to other solutions that cost less. The constant drumbeat that we must accept the car the way it is because it was the only way to get it at the price for which it is sold is just wrong.
I've offered some examples of solutions that cost less, but work better, which have been implemented in other cars and trucks. In response, the apologists tell me to "buy the other car". For most of the examples, I already own the other car. That's called first hand knowledge.
If you want a list of the shortcomings of those other cars, I can list them too. But that's not the point. It isn't a matter of either/or, it is a matter of illustrating that the Corvette's designers and engineers did have other choices, choices that wouldn't have increased the cost of the Corvette, but would have resulted in a better car.
Now you haven't seen me complain about the paint. I know the difficulties of painting fiberglass with low VOC paints. They did the best they could. It might not be perfect, but I accept it because they did do the best they could short of hand color sanding every car, which I will be the first to admit would have cost more. There are other things like that on the car which are as good as they could make them given the price target they were trying to meet. That's not what I'm talking about here.
What I've been talking about are things they could have done differently to make the car better without costing more. That list is fairly long. These are things I want to see them address in future cars, so when I go to buy a 2008 or 2012 Corvette, the car will be better.
I have a C5 and a C4 and love them both but had hoped to see some of the no cost improvements Spoken of in this thread. All of my daily drivers have steering wheel mounted cruise and or radio controls that I prefer. My 88 Pontiac is the only other one that has a stalk on the column for the cruise. Owning a corvette is a dream finally come true for many of us. I got my first one after 50. I'm not complaining about corvette ownership, I'll accept them any way they build them. But I have to agree that positive changes can be made without equalling dollars spent. For 17 years I have told friends that my pontiac " rides rough, steers hard and sits uncomfortably low; and those are the reasons I LOVE it." It's like driving a go cart! I accepted it wholeheartedly the way they built it. I know it seems to some here like heresy to make a negative remark about the new C6 but take it from a C4/ Fiero lover you haven't "lived" until you try to defend your love for these two. I am still trying to figure out why I have a cupholder in my C5 designed for a Dixie cup! 
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,734
Likes: 2
From: Southeastern PA
This forum should supply both positive and negative points. There are too many complainers but some may have the absolute right to do so. I've heard stories of new Vette owners breaking down 350 miles away from the Museum in BG because of the crank pulley issue. I'm sure if they found that GM was trying to save fifteen cents on a washer, they'd be pretty pissed sitting and waiting for a flatbed. This may be a poor example, but some people come here only when they have a problem and they're looking for answers. Maybe we view the forum on bad days and suck in all of the negative, leading to negative posts of our own. Who knows....I don't really care. I've been pretty happy with my car and this forum! Enjoy.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,988
Likes: 4
From: Damascus-Boring Or
I personally think the war between the great and the goofy continues at GM- and they often sit on the same committees. 
That being said, I think it's a miracle the C6 arrived with as few quirks as it did. I also think:
1) If fit, finish, and paint are your primariy worries- this isn't your car.
2) If status is your primary objective- this isn't your car.
3) If owning a 100% reliable daily driver is your top priority- this isn't your car.
on the other hand
1) If owning an insanely fast and attractive sports car holds a fatal attraction- this could be your car.
2) If hearing the "rolling thunder" of an American V8 gives you goosebumps- this could be your car
3) If you think cars have a personality that reflect their heritage- this could be your car and
4) If you think driving an American car that's at the top of it's class is a statement in itself- this could be your car.
That being said, I think it's a miracle the C6 arrived with as few quirks as it did. I also think:1) If fit, finish, and paint are your primariy worries- this isn't your car.
2) If status is your primary objective- this isn't your car.
3) If owning a 100% reliable daily driver is your top priority- this isn't your car.
on the other hand
1) If owning an insanely fast and attractive sports car holds a fatal attraction- this could be your car.
2) If hearing the "rolling thunder" of an American V8 gives you goosebumps- this could be your car
3) If you think cars have a personality that reflect their heritage- this could be your car and
4) If you think driving an American car that's at the top of it's class is a statement in itself- this could be your car.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,874
Likes: 68
From: Rochester Hills Michigan
Complaints
This is my 10th Vette and by far the best car I have every had. Could it be better......no doubt it could and will be as the C6 model years continue. The one thing I remember about all my Vettes is that I absolutely loved driving them and the C6 is really easy to love to drive. There is nothing wrong with people discussing the issues that bother them or stuff they don't like, it's what the forum is for. BUT there is also nothing wrong with those of us who think it's one GREAT CAR. Thanks DH and GM and mark me down for an 07
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Polar_Bear
I personally think the war between the great and the goofy continues at GM- and they often sit on the same committees. That being said, I think it's a miracle the C6 arrived with as few quirks as it did. I also think:
1) If fit, finish, and paint are your primariy worries- this isn't your car.
2) If status is your primary objective- this isn't your car.
3) If owning a 100% reliable daily driver is your top priority- this isn't your car.
on the other hand
1) If owning an insanely fast and attractive sports car holds a fatal attraction- this could be your car.
2) If hearing the "rolling thunder" of an American V8 gives you goosebumps- this could be your car
3) If you think cars have a personality that reflect their heritage- this could be your car and
4) If you think driving an American car that's at the top of it's class is a statement in itself- this could be your car.
That being said, I think it's a miracle the C6 arrived with as few quirks as it did. I also think:1) If fit, finish, and paint are your primariy worries- this isn't your car.
2) If status is your primary objective- this isn't your car.
3) If owning a 100% reliable daily driver is your top priority- this isn't your car.
on the other hand
1) If owning an insanely fast and attractive sports car holds a fatal attraction- this could be your car.
2) If hearing the "rolling thunder" of an American V8 gives you goosebumps- this could be your car
3) If you think cars have a personality that reflect their heritage- this could be your car and
4) If you think driving an American car that's at the top of it's class is a statement in itself- this could be your car.
this attitude is exactly why America has lost so much marketshare,and Toyota is slated to be the biggest automaker in the world come 2010. this attitude is why GM was making garbage so long!! why cant we have the best,why cant i have great quality for a machine that costs 55-60k.im not making excuses for the c6,no body should. some things can be overlooked,Quality is not one of them!!!!!