12.69@112 bone stock = True Believer
09-30-2006, 05:19 PM
#41
Race Director
Originally Posted by jmauceri
Ok, if you go into paddle mode (let's say down shifting off an exit), can you use the paddles to get back to fully automatic or do you have to move the gear selector to D and then back to S?
09-30-2006, 05:30 PM
#42
Race Director
Originally Posted by DSOM Z51
I don't believe that I understand your post. Z51 in an A6 offers no gearing advantage, nor any other advantage, in a 1/4 mile drag strip pass vs a base A6. If its a 6 speed automatic and he is just mashing the gas pedal and running it in a straight line, it would not matter if it is a Z51 or not.
If I were a drag racing enthusiast, and my car just had to be a C6 Vette, then the base automatic A6, with very few, if any options, would be my choice. Especially if I were bracket racing.
Its inexpensive for a C6 Vette, consistency is easier to obtain, launch is easier, I would want an automatic. Since I would be riding in a straight line in that automatic, Z51 would offer me little to no advantage over the base automatic.
COOLING.
The Z51 offers extra cooling which neither the base nor F55 offer. Once you start going rounds or hot lapping the car, tranny temp goes up which means slower shifts and eventually, damage. Higher oil and water temp can lead to retarded timing which means your bracket racing is finished for the day. Look at the difference in his times from summer to fall and tell me cooling isn't important to drag racers.
In my C5, after I went through 1 transmission, I installed a trans cooler and NEVER saw those high tranny temps again.
When I went shopping for a C6, you bet your grapes I asked for the extra cooling.
No need for a suspension fight here, it's all about cooling. To the original poster, great posted times, I hope mine does as well. Can't wait to get it to the track!
Last edited by C5pilot; 09-30-2006 at 05:36 PM.
09-30-2006, 07:19 PM
#43
Originally Posted by C5pilot
OK, let's cover all you're incorrectness with one fact that you've forgotten to mention...
COOLING.
The Z51 offers extra cooling which neither the base nor F55 offer. Once you start going rounds or hot lapping the car, tranny temp goes up which means slower shifts and eventually, damage. Higher oil and water temp can lead to retarded timing which means your bracket racing is finished for the day. Look at the difference in his times from summer to fall and tell me cooling isn't important to drag racers.
In my C5, after I went through 1 transmission, I installed a trans cooler and NEVER saw those high tranny temps again.
When I went shopping for a C6, you bet your grapes I asked for the extra cooling.
No need for a suspension fight here, it's all about cooling. To the original poster, great posted times, I hope mine does as well. Can't wait to get it to the track!
COOLING.
The Z51 offers extra cooling which neither the base nor F55 offer. Once you start going rounds or hot lapping the car, tranny temp goes up which means slower shifts and eventually, damage. Higher oil and water temp can lead to retarded timing which means your bracket racing is finished for the day. Look at the difference in his times from summer to fall and tell me cooling isn't important to drag racers.
In my C5, after I went through 1 transmission, I installed a trans cooler and NEVER saw those high tranny temps again.
When I went shopping for a C6, you bet your grapes I asked for the extra cooling.
No need for a suspension fight here, it's all about cooling. To the original poster, great posted times, I hope mine does as well. Can't wait to get it to the track!
09-30-2006, 07:37 PM
#44
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by DSOM Z51
Well, I thank you for the corrections. I believe that you are new to this section, and I wish you the best with the new C6. And you are indeed right. Efficient cooling is indeed an important part of any car's overall performance.
However, I'd hate to compromise the handling of the car and get the base model just to save a little weight.
Last edited by glennhl; 10-01-2006 at 01:51 AM.
09-30-2006, 07:55 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by C5pilot
OK, let's cover all you're incorrectness with one fact that you've forgotten to mention...
COOLING.
The Z51 offers extra cooling which neither the base nor F55 offer. Once you start going rounds or hot lapping the car, tranny temp goes up which means slower shifts and eventually, damage. Higher oil and water temp can lead to retarded timing which means your bracket racing is finished for the day. Look at the difference in his times from summer to fall and tell me cooling isn't important to drag racers.
COOLING.
The Z51 offers extra cooling which neither the base nor F55 offer. Once you start going rounds or hot lapping the car, tranny temp goes up which means slower shifts and eventually, damage. Higher oil and water temp can lead to retarded timing which means your bracket racing is finished for the day. Look at the difference in his times from summer to fall and tell me cooling isn't important to drag racers.
Last edited by cbrf4i1; 09-30-2006 at 08:04 PM.
10-01-2006, 12:22 AM
#47
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That same GT500 convertible just ran 11.890@120.93 with slicks as the only mod. He then had the car tuned and with slicks ran 11.652@122.58. Not bad for a heavy 4000lb convertible. I doubt a C6 (non-Z) with a tune, any option, will run the high of a mph.
10-01-2006, 12:45 AM
#48
Race Director
Originally Posted by cbrf4i1
actually, #1 there is no timing retard that is base on higher oil temp that i can find anywhere. #2 z51 is more likely to have a higher coolant temp (cause by cooling the engine oil) if your stat is open all the time. so in that respect it is more likely to have a timing retard issue that is base on coolant temp. sorry to hear your trouble with your c5.
I'm not sure how you equate more cooling to higher engine temps or why you feel the Z51 will have a hotter coolant temp. Please explain what you meant by that.
As for the other persons comment about the added weight of the Z51 option, that's indeed a factor. But it's my belief those components provide enough benefit to offset their weight disadvantage. You just have to decide what you want to do with the car. Heavier sway bars and bigger brakes allow a road racer to push the car harder through the turns which more than makes up for the few pounds. Being a bracket racer, I'm not trying to be the fastest car, just the most consistant so weight isn't as important as keeping the components cool and always generating the same HP on every run. So I chose it for cooling.
Last edited by C5pilot; 10-01-2006 at 12:57 AM.
10-01-2006, 01:56 AM
#49
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by bunk22
That same GT500 convertible just ran 11.890@120.93 with slicks as the only mod. He then had the car tuned and with slicks ran 11.652@122.58. Not bad for a heavy 4000lb convertible. I doubt a C6 (non-Z) with a tune, any option, will run the high of a mph.
10-01-2006, 06:38 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by C5pilot
I'm not sure what you mean. Detonation is usually caused by excessive heat. To combat detonation the timing will be retarded to protect the engine. Since the Z51 offers more cooling and more oil capacity (6qts vs. 5.5qts) it can hot lap longer and still generate peak HP.
I'm not sure how you equate more cooling to higher engine temps or why you feel the Z51 will have a hotter coolant temp. Please explain what you meant by that.
I'm not sure how you equate more cooling to higher engine temps or why you feel the Z51 will have a hotter coolant temp. Please explain what you meant by that.
I never stated any where more cooling equate higher engine oil temp if that is what you are referring to. which engine temp are you referring to? engine oil? (never) coolant temp? (maybe) trans oil temp? (never)
Originally Posted by C5pilot
Higher oil and water temp can lead to retarded timing
since a z51 option c6 has to cool these 3 things, vs none z51 only has to cool (heat exchanger) coolant & auto trans oil (if the car is an auto), that means more heat is getting dump into the z51 option radiator and under hard / racing condition if the coolant temp is high enough where the stat is open the whole time. (condition of not enough air flow through the radiator to remove heat and allow the stat to cycle from close to open and back and forth) you are more likely to have a slight higher coolant temp vs a radiator (non z51) that only has to be a heat exchanger for the coolant and maybe auto trans oil (if the car is an auto). keep in mind under this hard / racing condition z51 option car will have cooler engine & trans (manual) oil temp, but these two oil temps has no influence on timing retard. i hope this makes sense.
Last edited by cbrf4i1; 10-01-2006 at 06:42 AM.
10-01-2006, 06:46 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by glennhl
Something doesn't add up. A 4200 pound car (with driver) needs well over 600 hp to trap over 122 mph. Are you sure this car didn't have an aftermarket pulley that drives the supercharger faster?
i enter 4200 lb with 122 trap speed and got 595 hp. unless Ford is under rating GT500's true hp.http://www.ajdesigner.com/phphorsepo...horsepower.php
10-01-2006, 08:45 AM
#52
Safety Car
cbrf4i1 -
I punched in a NEW Z06s weight as 3330 with a 200# driver and 125 trap speed and got 507hp.
I then punched in my 2005 C6 automatics trap speed of 110.57 and a weight of 3400# with driver and only got 358hp.
I then did a C6 at 3400#s and a trap speed of 114 and got 393hp.
Chevy claims a 115 trap speed which brings that to 403hp, but VERY FEW people have trapped 115 in a STOCK C6.
Then again, there are alot of NEW Z06s trapping 122-123 and some at 126-127.
Just some info to think about.
Howard
I punched in a NEW Z06s weight as 3330 with a 200# driver and 125 trap speed and got 507hp.
I then punched in my 2005 C6 automatics trap speed of 110.57 and a weight of 3400# with driver and only got 358hp.
I then did a C6 at 3400#s and a trap speed of 114 and got 393hp.
Chevy claims a 115 trap speed which brings that to 403hp, but VERY FEW people have trapped 115 in a STOCK C6.
Then again, there are alot of NEW Z06s trapping 122-123 and some at 126-127.
Just some info to think about.
Howard
10-01-2006, 09:11 AM
#54
Safety Car
I think the GT500s have been trapping 117 stock, so with a tune and minor mods like a cai and catback, I can see 30rwhp+ and 120+ trap speeds.
If they truly trap 117 stock.
Keep in mind, 03 Cobras typically average 40-50rwhp+ just from a cai, catback, and a canned tune.
My last 03 Cobra made 418rwhp/396rwtq SAE with just cai, catback, and a canned tune.
In that trim it was capable of 115+ trap speeds.
Howard
If they truly trap 117 stock.
Keep in mind, 03 Cobras typically average 40-50rwhp+ just from a cai, catback, and a canned tune.
My last 03 Cobra made 418rwhp/396rwtq SAE with just cai, catback, and a canned tune.
In that trim it was capable of 115+ trap speeds.
Howard
10-01-2006, 12:05 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by glennhl
Something doesn't add up. A 4200 pound car (with driver) needs well over 600 hp to trap over 122 mph. Are you sure this car didn't have an aftermarket pulley that drives the supercharger faster?
10-01-2006, 01:18 PM
#57
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by bunk22
It's the net so I can't varify anything. I simple repeat what I see from SvtPerformance.com. The weather was apparently really good, good track and driver meant really good times. The driver said that the only mods was at first slicks, then a tune with slicks. Take it for what it's worth. Having had an 03 Cobra, small mods like cai and cat-back really woke the car up. A tune, like the C6 was another huge wake-up. I can see a 5.4L supercharged engine really waking up with a tune or cool weather. I think the GT500 is going to be a really good drag car, decent at everything else. IMO, the C6 is a decent drag car and really good at everything else.
10-01-2006, 01:29 PM
#58
Race Director
Originally Posted by cbrf4i1
since a z51 option c6 has to cool these 3 things, vs none z51 only has to cool (heat exchanger) coolant & auto trans oil (if the car is an auto), that means more heat is getting dump into the z51 option radiator and under hard / racing condition if the coolant temp is high enough where the stat is open the whole time. (condition of not enough air flow through the radiator to remove heat and allow the stat to cycle from close to open and back and forth) you are more likely to have a slight higher coolant temp vs a radiator (non z51) that only has to be a heat exchanger for the coolant and maybe auto trans oil (if the car is an auto).
Let's take this to email or PM since we seem to be the only 2 people interested in C6 performance. Somehow the topic changed to Fords.
10-01-2006, 03:46 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by C5pilot
Is the actual size of the coolant portion of the radiator reduced in Z51s? Coolant capacity remains at 12.6 qts in both Z51 and non-Z51. This leads me to believe coolant volume wasn't lowered, oil coolant was added. Just because they added oil cooling within the same radiator doesn't mean it will raise the coolant temp. Let's find out for sure what the coolant volume is for each radiator.
Let's take this to email or PM since we seem to be the only 2 people interested in C6 performance. Somehow the topic changed to Fords.
Let's take this to email or PM since we seem to be the only 2 people interested in C6 performance. Somehow the topic changed to Fords.
