C6 weight reduction?
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Coral Springs, Florida, USA Florida
The money for development & tooling for aluminum frame has already been spent. It would make sense to make it available as a production option on the regular C6.
I thought I read somewhere that Alcoa was producing these frames at a loss -- for now, and they were looking for ways to make aluminum frames more mainstream in the auto industry. Placing it into the regular C6 would be a logical next step to make this happen.
I thought I read somewhere that Alcoa was producing these frames at a loss -- for now, and they were looking for ways to make aluminum frames more mainstream in the auto industry. Placing it into the regular C6 would be a logical next step to make this happen.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,089
Likes: 14
Originally Posted by foliva
The money for development & tooling for aluminum frame has already been spent. It would make sense to make it available as a production option on the regular C6.
I thought I read somewhere that Alcoa was producing these frames at a loss -- for now, and they were looking for ways to make aluminum frames more mainstream in the auto industry. Placing it into the regular C6 would be a logical next step to make this happen.
I thought I read somewhere that Alcoa was producing these frames at a loss -- for now, and they were looking for ways to make aluminum frames more mainstream in the auto industry. Placing it into the regular C6 would be a logical next step to make this happen.
If you're really serious about shedding some weight from the car, lose the power seats, power windows, the 7 heavy speaker magnets, etc, etc, etc. No reason the car couldn't get down to C6R weight if you started tossing out the things the C6R doesn't have.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2002
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Tech Contributor
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'10
They did it by changes to the frame rails, carbon fiber quarter panels and a different floor panel. Too much additional cost - people gripe now, I can't see the average owner interested in shelling out an additional 5 to 7 k for .2 in the quarter. There are many, many less expensive ways to achieve better results in the after market. I know you'll find this hard to believe but most don't care about the quarter mile times (myself included) the only times I've tracked my Corvettes have been at road courses for track days and autocrosses. Quarter mile times are irrelevant to me.
Paul
Paul
Last edited by talon90; Dec 8, 2006 at 12:50 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2002
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'10
Originally Posted by foliva
The money for development & tooling for aluminum frame has already been spent. It would make sense to make it available as a production option on the regular C6.
I thought I read somewhere that Alcoa was producing these frames at a loss -- for now, and they were looking for ways to make aluminum frames more mainstream in the auto industry. Placing it into the regular C6 would be a logical next step to make this happen.
I thought I read somewhere that Alcoa was producing these frames at a loss -- for now, and they were looking for ways to make aluminum frames more mainstream in the auto industry. Placing it into the regular C6 would be a logical next step to make this happen.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,635
Likes: 4
From: Orlando Floriduh
Originally Posted by OregonC6
yes, but even some owners of C6s with the Z51 option persist in calling their cars "My Z51".
It seems at present there are really three cars where in the past there would have been only one. Today we have the Z06, C6 Corvette, and the Z51. In the past they would all have been called " Corvettes ".
.
It seems at present there are really three cars where in the past there would have been only one. Today we have the Z06, C6 Corvette, and the Z51. In the past they would all have been called " Corvettes ".
.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Originally Posted by BigJoe
Haha, most of us could go on a diet and lose more weight than you'd gain taking off a few "unnecessary" parts.
Also search on the 100s of posts moaning that the Vette doesn't have every bell and whistle that the {enter any foreign car here} has.
For everyone like you there are 20-30 folks that could care less that their must-have air conditioned seats, or whatever, add weight to the car.
Also search on the 100s of posts moaning that the Vette doesn't have every bell and whistle that the {enter any foreign car here} has.
For everyone like you there are 20-30 folks that could care less that their must-have air conditioned seats, or whatever, add weight to the car. Quike ways to reduce wt ( on the car ):
take out your speakers, and carpet ~ 75-80 lbs reduced
change to race seats, no not leather covered Racro's ~ 50 lbs reduced
get rid of run flat tires ~ 10 lbs less per tire
There that is almost 200 lbs reduced.
Not to mention carbon fiber body pannels
Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
From: TX
Originally Posted by shopdog
I'd want to see some long term fatigue life figures before jumping on that bandwagon. All aluminum support members suffer fatigue (steel doesn't unless the stresses exceed a certain threshold called the fatigue limit, which a competent designer will design below, but aluminum doesn't have a fatigue limit, any and every stress adds to the inevitable fatigue failure of the part). Besides, I recall reading that the justification for the fixed roof in the Z06 is because the aluminum frame isn't as stiff as the steel frame of the regular coupes and convertibles. So it requires extra bracing elsewhere to compensate.
If you're really serious about shedding some weight from the car, lose the power seats, power windows, the 7 heavy speaker magnets, etc, etc, etc. No reason the car couldn't get down to C6R weight if you started tossing out the things the C6R doesn't have.
If you're really serious about shedding some weight from the car, lose the power seats, power windows, the 7 heavy speaker magnets, etc, etc, etc. No reason the car couldn't get down to C6R weight if you started tossing out the things the C6R doesn't have.
One of the best ways to drop weight is to install lighter wheels and two piece brake rotors. You can drop 8 to 10 lbs total unsprung weight with the rotors and as much with the right wheels.
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Instructor
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Coral Springs, Florida, USA Florida
Originally Posted by shopdog
I'd want to see some long term fatigue life figures before jumping on that bandwagon. All aluminum support members suffer fatigue (steel doesn't unless the stresses exceed a certain threshold called the fatigue limit, which a competent designer will design below, but aluminum doesn't have a fatigue limit, any and every stress adds to the inevitable fatigue failure of the part). Besides, I recall reading that the justification for the fixed roof in the Z06 is because the aluminum frame isn't as stiff as the steel frame of the regular coupes and convertibles. So it requires extra bracing elsewhere to compensate.
If you're really serious about shedding some weight from the car, lose the power seats, power windows, the 7 heavy speaker magnets, etc, etc, etc. No reason the car couldn't get down to C6R weight if you started tossing out the things the C6R doesn't have.
If you're really serious about shedding some weight from the car, lose the power seats, power windows, the 7 heavy speaker magnets, etc, etc, etc. No reason the car couldn't get down to C6R weight if you started tossing out the things the C6R doesn't have.
Also, I remember reading that the aluminum frame stiffness was within a few percent of the steel frame.
Everytime I think about how cool it would be to slide an aluminum frame under my car, I think about the fact that I have a stiffer frame.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 788
Likes: 36
From: Charlotte NC
I like mine just the way it is. If you want a faster car, you can probably spend less money modifing the engine, but if you want a lighter car, then it will be $$$$ and I personally don't see the purpose....
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,910
Likes: 107
From: God's Country, ID
Originally Posted by AU N EGL
Quike ways to reduce wt ( on the car ):
take out your speakers, and carpet ~ 75-80 lbs reduced
change to race seats, no not leather covered Racro's ~ 50 lbs reduced
get rid of run flat tires ~ 10 lbs less per tire
There that is almost 200 lbs reduced.
Not to mention carbon fiber body pannels
take out your speakers, and carpet ~ 75-80 lbs reduced
change to race seats, no not leather covered Racro's ~ 50 lbs reduced
get rid of run flat tires ~ 10 lbs less per tire
There that is almost 200 lbs reduced.
Not to mention carbon fiber body pannels
Don't forget Mag wheels
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Coral Springs, Florida, USA Florida
Originally Posted by talon90
They did it by changes to the frame rails, carbon fiber quarter panels and a different floor panel. Too much additional cost - people gripe now, I can't see the average owner interested in shelling out an additional 5 to 7 k for .2 in the quarter. There are many, many less expensive ways to achieve better results in the after market. I know you'll find this hard to believe but most don't care about the quarter mile times (myself included) the only times I've tracked my Corvettes have been at road courses for track days and autocrosses. Quarter mile times are irrelevant to me.
Paul
Paul
I wonder how much gain on an autocross track that hundred or so pound weight savings would get you.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Lincoln NE
Obviously lightening up the car would change the dynamics, but would this change be positive or negative? Remember the C6R has a lot of added downforce from the front splitter and the rear spoiler. I think if you made the car too light it would want to take off at higher speeds. But want the heck do I know, I'm a finance major 
! Call me if you need to borrow some extra money for all that magnesium and carbon fiber.....
! Call me if you need to borrow some extra money for all that magnesium and carbon fiber.....
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 1,193
From: La Center WA
Personally, I'd rather see optional engines in the "base" coupe and convertible like in the 60s and early 70s. Keep the current LS2 as the standard engine and add 2 or 3 more powerful optional ones. (I'm no expert but I've got to believe that certain tweaks could be done in order to offer multiple engine choices based on the current 6 liter block; maybe they could even offer a version of the 7 liter in non-Z06 cars.) Hell, there could even be some subtle badging on the sides of the car or on the hood to represent which engine is in the car (again, like they did in the 60s and early 70s). Optional engines were once a way to make one's Corvette a bit special; now that just about everything comes standard on the car and there's just the one engine, all non-Z06 Corvettes are pretty much the same. Just a thought.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,598
Likes: 0
From: indianapolis indiana
Originally Posted by Maybesomeday312
Obviously lightening up the car would change the dynamics, but would this change be positive or negative? Remember the C6R has a lot of added downforce from the front splitter and the rear spoiler. I think if you made the car too light it would want to take off at higher speeds. But want the heck do I know, I'm a finance major ! Call me if you need to borrow some extra money for all that magnesium and carbon fiber.....
! Call me if you need to borrow some extra money for all that magnesium and carbon fiber.....
Racer
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
From: Fremont,CA
Originally Posted by Larry B.
I think I read somewhere that the ZO6 had an aluninum frame. Sorry I don't remenber where... I might be wrong....Just repeating what I read somewhere.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 2
From: Arkansas
I was under the impression that the Z06 aluminum frame was constrained by the need to be dimensionally identical to the steel frame. Maybe if they could start with a clean sheet they could achieve the durability and strength of the steel frame and still provide for a removable roof and a big weight reduction.
I remember reading the book "All Corvettes are Red" where the design engineers were proud that they developed a cost analysis for weight saving. Something like $10 per pound in the mid 1990's was established as the threshold of deciding whether a given weight saving was worth the cost. That would mean something on the order of $2,000 could be budgeted toward an aluminum frame if you figure in a little inflation since the C5 days. I'd pay it to get a sub 3,000 lb car. I'm not so sure about the collision repair issues though.
I remember reading the book "All Corvettes are Red" where the design engineers were proud that they developed a cost analysis for weight saving. Something like $10 per pound in the mid 1990's was established as the threshold of deciding whether a given weight saving was worth the cost. That would mean something on the order of $2,000 could be budgeted toward an aluminum frame if you figure in a little inflation since the C5 days. I'd pay it to get a sub 3,000 lb car. I'm not so sure about the collision repair issues though.
