I think the thread has gone along well. A lot of information has been shared for the membership and different people will leave/come away from this thread with different things.

I did my best to do my part in answering the original poster's question.

However it is becoming increasingly apparent to me, from your above response, that it is difficult to do this without some, unfortunately seeing an underlying agenda, which is not the case.

First off, they didn't make enough Z06s so that everyone could buy one.

Secondly, it is an expensive car and not an option for some.

Thirdly many simply do not want a Z06, for several reasons.

I completely realize all of the above so again I say that you are completely wrong when you try to say that my message is: ""you should have bought a Z06" or "if you modify it you will be sorry".

In my mind there were a few significant things which have happend over the short evolution of the C6 Corvette, which affected the rationale behind modding for power.

1. The 5yr/100,000 mile powertrain warranty.

2. The 436HP LS3 Engine.

3. The 505HP Z06.

Lets look at them a bit more closely.

When GM gave us the 5 year/ 100,000 mile warranty, a lot of people here didn't see it, or realize it, but they made it even less worthwhile for many here to modify their cars.

GM is in effect saying, buy the car, drive it for 5 years or 100,000 miles, and if anything in the car which makes it move should malfunction, break, fail, then take it in to one of our dealerships, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, and we will take care of it. If you are dissatisfied with that agent, then you can take it to another. If you are still dissatisfied, then you can contact us and we will send one of our regional people out to look into it.....WE DON"T CARE IF YOU ARE ON THE ROAD TO TIMBUKTU, we are obligated to fix it.

Try that with your local aftermarket tuning shop. Or even some of these forum sponsors.

Your state's lemon laws also came into effect. They said that if you bought a bad one, and it was down for the same repair for a certain number of consecutive days, that you were entitled to a remedy.

The GM warranty, they give us in writing, and they have to stand behind it. The state's laws protect us.

And the only way that GM or the state can get out of their end of the deal..........is if we let them out.

Now where does this fit into modifications for power/performance?

If you modify the car, then you place your protection under the above in jeopardy.

Furthermore, the person who modified it, cannot, and will not, offer you the same remedies which the above can.

GM gives us a 505hp Corvette. The Z06. As a prior owner of Corvettes, some of which were modified, I am knowing that if I modify my Corvette, that it will be for the purpose of increasing it's power.

They tell us, "we are going to sell you a factory 505 hp Corvette. Its unlikely that you are going to need or want much, if any, more than that. You don't have to add a thing to it. We are going to let you have it for 70K..... And the above in red applies."

Drive it for 5 years or 100,000 miles. And if ANYTHING WHICH MAKES IT MOVE FAILS, BRING IT BACK AND WE WILL FIX IT FREE OF CHARGE.

Now I know I crave horsepower and performance. So what am I going to do? Well they just made me an offer I can't refuse.

I am going to buy the most powerful one which I can afford, and take GM up on their offer to fix any ******n thing which goes wrong with it's powertrain for the next 5 years or 100.000 miles. If it fails, then let them eat the costs of repairing it.

Why should I??? I have paid enough. I paid what they asked, they sold me a car PLUS the privilage of having it fixed should it fail. Thats what I paid for, and thats what I want. Why let them off the hook in the name of seeking a few more horses in a car which is already one of the most powerful vehicles in the world???

Enter the 436 HP LS3. GM makes the same offer. 436 HP we are selling you here, and a new transmission, PLUS other features... performance to beat the band and second only to the Z06. PLUS the same applies. Drive it 5 years or 100,000 miles, we don't care which. If it so much as coughs or jerks the wrong way, take it back to one of our dealers...and if he doesn't treat you right, then take it to another of our dealers, anywhere you want and we will fix it free of charge.

Plus you can get an extended warranty, at a reasonable price, on all of this power and performance that we are selling you at a "low" 50-70K price that no other manufacturer anywhere can sell you.

So if it fails, let them eat the cost of repairing it. Why should I??? I have paid enough. I paid what they asked, they sold me a car PLUS the privilage of having it fixed should it fail. Thats what I paid for, and thats what I want. Why let them off the hook in the name of seeking a few more horses in a car which is already one of the most powerful vehicles in the world??? A quest which very well could result in more headache than benefit for me????

Now you know, in '05 or with any first year model, those first buyers its been argued are "beta testers".

You buy a car, even if its not a first year model and it can fail.

If it is a stock 436hp or a stock 505hp Z06, you have not a *******n worry in the world.

It ain't your problem. At least not long term anyway.

Why, because GM is standing behind it, and if they don't treat you right, then the state's attorney general and the Lemon laws offer you a recourse.

However if you mod it, you may very well have just let them both off the hook, and possibly wound up in a situation whereby they can't and won't do a damn thing for you.

AND FOR WHAT????? 20-30 RWHP????? 40 RWHP, and if much above that, other potential issues which go along with increasing power, and which might require repairs which that now blown warranty would have covered???

So what does all of this mean?

It means that since I was modifying my cars to get the power and performance I was seeking, and carrying the "risk" of failure on my own.....I don't have to do that anymore.

So if I can afford a Z06 and have GM eat the cost if it should fail, then thats what I am going to do.

In my mind, it makes absolutely no sense for me to buy a 436 hp C6 and mod it to 500hp (or more) and carry the risk of a powertrain failure myself. When I can buy a Z06 and let GM carry the risk of a powertrain failure on a car that powerful, and over a 5 year/100,000 mile period

If all I can afford is a 436 hp C6, then again, GM just killed a lot of the reason for me to take on the risk of boosting the power much beyond that.

In my mind, (just as what you had said earlier) it makes no sense to let GM off the hook if it should fail, simply because I am hunting 25, 35 or 40 more horsepower.

Again In my mind, it makes absolutely no sense for me to buy a 436 hp C6 and mod it to 466 hp (or more) and carry the risk of a powertrain failure myself. When I can buy a Z06 and let GM carry 100% of the risk of a powertrain failure on 500hp car, and over a 5 year/100,000 mile period


......OR I can just leave it alone, not compromise it's drivability, dependability, and emissions system....NOT RISK EXPOSING MYSELF TO ENDLESS HEADACHES, and find a way to be satisfied with 436 horsepower, second most powerful Vette ever made......AND WITH A 5 year/ 100,000 mile WARRANTY.

Imagine that.

And they did that by saying: Look, its 436HP, we sold it to you at a deal, go out, drive the hell out if, if within 5 years or 100,000 miles anything in it's powertrain fails, bring it back."

Now I know that you are going spin what I said above, warp it into my saying: ""you should have bought a Z06" or "if you modify it you will be sorry" especially the part I outlined in blue. But that is not the case at all. That is not the message I am trying to convey at all.

I know that you are likely to come back and say that what I wrote above is indication of a hidden anti base C6 agenda" but again, that is not the case.

The original poster asked about "mod failures". I think we gave him a good show.

 

Apparently you didn't read the full warranty paperwork. I don't know how many things you have done under warranty but they will do there best to get out of it and end up with you paying something. Go out a do a search like you have on everything else. GM has denied warranty on many stock cars + they are ton's of little things that aren't covered by the powertrain. I wish Gm had Lexus like service but let's face it they not even in the top 15 in rated service departments.

That is why most of my C5's were 97's because I could care less about GM's warranty. Based on several experiences I had with Gm service departments the warranty isn't worth as much as it should be. One example would be I had a knock sensor go out my 99 which had a extended. The 1st dealer denied it was covered and tried to charge me a $90.00 diagnostics fee. I told them forgot it and after a big fight I didn't have to pay the fee. So I took it to another dealer about 20 miles further away and they accepted the warranty claim but it took 5 days to do a 3 hour job. These are great examples why I don't care if I crack into the car.

 

Quick,
Until I read everything that has happened to you, and can now see your point of view, I too thought you were just bashing us regular C6 owners who have upgraded. I can understand your frustration, as I too have felt my own frustration, as you well know, but for me at least, the ultimate satisfaction is worth it.

Sorry for your past problems!

 

WickedC5, as the owner of an '06, Certified Used, with the same 5yr/100,000 mile powertrain warranty given to the '07s, '08s and '09s, I have read it backwards, forwards and sideways.

If this sucker so much as coughs the wrong way....if it coughs at all, its going right back, and they can't give me a hassle about it. The oil receipts, I have, and the car will go in for it's scheduled maintenance. In fact I just had it in for the Active Handling light, which they fixed, no questions asked.

Thats at my dealership. And if they don't do it, then there are several more around here. At any rate, they have nothing which would even look like grounds whatsoever to give me a warranty hassle.

They can't red flag my car. But if it were modded, then they possibly could.

They try to hassle me, they don't have a leg to stand on.

http://www.gmcertified.com/certified...eep=powertrain

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That's funny

 

This is the part that they deny warranty claims on. Myself I have a extended that came on my 2006 which is bumper to bumper to 61k but it still doesn't make me feel that great about there overall service thanks to my tuner I have made friends with some of the service writers at the local dealer but my faith for warranty claims with GM is still low.

Also if you blow up the motor or something big and it takes 2 months or something crazy to fix that still doesn't make me feel that car.

 

Thanks. And best of luck to you too.

 

I understand.

But at least if that happens, it won't cost you a cent for a new engine if its under warranty.

 

We are currently sorting out a 2008 with a Procharger setup installed. The list of screw ups is staggering.
Oil line improperly installed which came off and sprayed everything down and appears to have taken out a bearing in the charger. Add to that the shift points were not changed and the automatic transmission took a dump.
Overall, sloppy installation, parts missing, loose etc.
All on a fresh 08 to boot.

 

That hurts. On a practically brand new car. Needing a new transmission and who knows what else. And dollars to doughnuts, its more than likely out of warranty now and the owner is looking at fighting with the original installer, if the owner was not the installer, to get things made right.

Plus Jim, your bill is going to have to be paid by somebody. And from the sounds of it, and the looks of your shop and reputation, its not going to be cheap.

Having lost a low mileage Corvette automatic transmission myself, I feel bad for the owner of that car. What he must be feeling right around now.

Well, at least the engine didn't pop.

 

The upside is the owner somehow got the transmission replaced under warranty. In the end it should not be too bad in terms of cost, but doing it correctly the first time is always the least amount of pain.
Jim Jordan

 

I completely understand you logic. I also see that you are coming from experience. While I don't fully disagree, I also dont fully agree. Its kind of like a parent trying to tell you the 'right' thing to do. Might be the 'better' route, but you acess your own risk tolerance and find out for yourself. You have obviously had many bad expereiences, so that is why your view is like that. My friend has had modified cars all his life and now has a modified 98 vette. Never has problems, but just his plain old good luck.
But obviously in retrospect it does sound silly , is 50 horses, just to get used to the new power anyways, worth throwing away a great warranty.

 

And I can appreciate that you understand, but do not necessarily agree with what I said.

I can respect that.

To be sure, I am certainly not trying to be anyone's "parent" here. My own kids, oldest 22 youngest 18, don't listen to me anymore anyway.

To let my 18 year old tell it, him being bigger, faster, stronger and of course smarter than I am, its a miracle I have lasted this long.

I think for Sranger, my words:

I have kept this list for myself for a while and add to it periodically.

When I hear someone in here say, "I can mod my C6 to run with or quicker than a Z06, I keep this list of "modding complications" in mind.

I think this pushed him over the edge, though that was not my intent. Indeed, it may have done the same for others as well, but again this was not my intent. Only a remark about how I reflect on my own experiences. And how those experiences still serve as a lesson to me, a reminder to me as to why I have chosen a different route.

In short, I point to these and say, "If I needed any reminding about why I no longer mod my Vette for performance, then here is another example of why I don't.

However, for those who choose to modify their cars, my hat is off to them.

Someone here has already said it, but what would a car show be like, indeed, what would this forum be like without modified cars?

It would be quite dull discussing a bunch of bone stock cars.

That said, I go back to the statement I made: "when I hear someone say I can mod my C6 to run with or quicker than a Z06, I keep this list of "modding complications" in mind".

You know, ......if we really strip everything away.......get down to the brass tacks, we will discover that a lot, not all, but a lot of the impetus, the motivation, that many here have for modding.......is so that they can compete with a Z06. Either on the dyno or on the track.

"What do I need to do to make my car run with a Z06?" Many threads along those lines. Too many to count.

or we will see a thread started which reads along the lines of:

"Modded Coupe or Z06 which way should I Go?"

Without fail, we we get a response or two, along the lines of: "Just put a supercharger on it and smoke bone stock Z06s."

We see it here in the C6 section, we saw it in the C5 section as well. The Z06s performance is the brass ring for many a modder. Hell, it was for me. With both of my last two Vettes. And I know that I was not alone in that "pursuit". Far from it. If he can "mod his car to run with a stock Z06", or better yet, to make the DYNO NUMBERS of a Z06, well then he feels that he has arrived.

It does not matter what he gives up to get there. Even if his car is brand new and runs fine, .......and fast. And as he "progresses" with his mods, and his "dyno numbers" go upward, it tends to matter less and less what he has to give up to get there.


Again, this is going to rub a few people the wrong way.

Respondents in those type of threads typically will say headers, intake, tune, supercharger, nitrous, gears, heads and cam, Vararam, and a long list of other POTENTIALLY warranty killing, drivability and dependability killing aftermarket modifications, or combinations of them all, which don't come cheap for what you get. And lets face it, open the door for issues.

And heres something else: Many of the people responding in those threads, anonymously and "recommending" these mods on other people's cars,.... may not have any experience with them. And some of the ones who do, and have had, or may have had issues with them, are too often reluctant to discuss on this forum.

For all we know, that car discussed above by JimJ@CountyCorvette, may be a forum member's car. But if it is, I doubt the owner comes forward in here.

They also don't tell you, that if you go that route, be prepared to spend more money and strengthen the rest of the driveline.

"Just put a supercharger on it and smoke stock Z06s" Yeah, and if I bust something you are going to pay for it, right???

When the truth is, and again, a whole lot of people are not going to want to hear this, ...... a good driver in a completely bone stock 436hp Corvette is a formidable opponent for virtually anything traveling the roads today. Z06 or whatever.

You give Ranger, Jamie Furman, and a few of the others, a 436hp C6 and watch how many stock C6 Z06s he takes out. In any type of competitive or sports driving endeavor.

But the people recommending all of those mods, the ones saying "Get the coupe and just bolt a supercharger on it and smoke stock Zs" either don't know about, or don't care to talk about, the cases like the one described by JimJ@CountyCorvette and other nightmare stories.

I often times wonder why.

Guys, I have seen a 400 hp LS2 based C6 walk down a 505hp C6 Z06 on a road course because the driver of the LS2 based car was a better driver.

So when folks come in here and say, "I modded my car XYZ way and as a result, I can now run with some of these stock Z06s", again I get a kick out of it because I know, if they had just worked on their driving and not spent a dime on mods, ... with 436hp, they possibly would have STILL been able to run with some stock Z06s. And most anything else out there on the road.


I'm thinking, OK, there is more than one way to skin a cat. In order to make your C6 "run with some of these stock Z06s" you ate the warranty, it won't pass emissions, you killed the gas mileage if you added aftermarket gears, you limited where you can take it for service, you gave up some drivability and dependability..............when all you needed to have done was worked on your driving skills.

Sure, doing that would not have beaten them all.......but you still can't beat them all with those warranty killing mods you added either.

 

Well technically doesnt the warranty not work if the car breaks at the track? So becoming a 'better' driver by practising is actually in the same boat as modding.

Haha, just giving you a hard time at this point

 

You hit the wall at the track, is your insurance company going to pay for it??????

Just as if you wreck your car at the track, no one else is going to foot the bill. (Your insurance company won't take care of it.) you damage your car in any way racing it, wreck it or break something, its your bill and you can't expect warranty or insurance to cover it. As it should be.

Of course....many don't feel comfortable accepting that risk and don't race their cars.

The initial impulse is to not believe it, and tracking a car should never be taken lightly, but, depending on the mod, tracking your car might be safer than modding it.

In other words, if I had an A6 436hp C6, I'd rather make 100 bone stock quarter mile passes in it over the course of a year, AND daily drive it...... than to have some local shop install a supercharger on it and then daily drive it over the course of a year.

Probably less chance of me having problems as a result of those 100 passes than as a result of that supercharger.

Furthermore, if I were buying, and I had my choices narrowed down between a bone stock A6 C6 Corvette with 100 bone stock quarter mile passes on it over the course of it's life, and one with an aftermarket supercharger on it, over much of the course of it's life, and both had the same mileage ........ I'd buy the stock one with the 100 passes on it and pass on the supercharged one.

I'd expect more problems out of it, later on up the road, than I would the one with the 100 passes on it.

In some areas, tracking it may be safer than driving it on "certain" public roads.

How many people have you heard of in here, crash at the track? Very few.

But you can go barely a day without hearing about someone having some problem or another with a mod.

Me, though both carry a risk, I'm more comfortable tracking my car than modding it.

I'm just giving you a hard time at this point.

 

Does it go any more wrong than this?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2104145

Sadly, this one is headed for the list too.

 

The best Mod I ever did was to order a new GS the way I want it.

 

After selling my C6 I've had my Supercharged stock block C5 almost a year now and no problems except for a leaky methanol line that wasn't quite tight enough. Probley my fault

 

Way to muck up another thread quicksilver sheesh.

 

'06 Quiksilver Z06... Dude easy with novels, please lol.