I am about to take the plunge on Pfadt coilover set-up. I just wanna make sure this is what I want.

Having driven the porsche twin turbo, I am looking for a less clumsy ride, something more confidence inspired on turns with bad road imperfections. I would also like the car to feel light like it really is. I will say the Acura RSX feel more confidence inspired in turns with road imperfections and it feel nimble and light but solid.

Trust me I know my Z06 handles way better than the Acura but I am talking about the confidence I feel in the RSX or the Porsche. I have been driven nothing but stock vette's since 1994 from C4-C5-C6-C6
_Z06 so I do not know the cure and this is my first time modding.

Will coilover cure this help this or not gonna get me what I want? Or do I just need to get the shock? I feel like the cars dampening is pretty tight on compression but on expansion or rebound it gets really floaty for a sports car.

I HPDE once or twice per year and the car is a daily driver. I live in LA & the local roads are really bad, so I do not want he car to get more harsh this is why i was thinking adjustable. I can tighten it down for canyon and DE runs.

Please excuse my ignorance as I am not a wrench type but I love to drive.

Joe

 

It's a nice set for sure.

 

Thank you!

Do you have any experience with these or any coilover vs stock on a vette?

 

What made the difference for my base suspension was the combination of:

• Pfadt adjustable coilovers w/ poly bushings
• Z51 sway bars w/ poly bushings
• removing GM leaf springs
• upgrade dampers
• road tested wheel alignment
• 4 point balance
• lowering ride height (via coilover settings)
• performance wheels/tires

(see profile)

Major improvement in handling. No more body roll in fast turns. No more wheel hop. Solid hook-ups. Better steering response.

 

I tend to feel the "confidence" you're looking for won't necessarily be found in a set of coil-over's. If you're trying to make your Corvette feel like a Porsche...it won't. That said with the right tires in a track setting you shouldn't have any trouble running with (or surpassing) most any Porsche excepting perhaps a 'full-on' race prepared Porsche. The confidence to use any setup to the max comes from experience and from within...at least to the ultimate capabilities of the car.

Don't misconstrue my meaning...I've seen some very fast, capable Corvettes on a stock suspension but I still think a coil-over suspension is superior to the transverse leaf spring setup. The independent suspension has IMO a more planted feel than you get from the transverse leaf spring and to borrow a phrase...less "cross-talk" than you get with the transverse leaf spring suspension. When it gets down to it, I'd bet any improvement in lap times (coil-over versus the stock Z06 suspension) would be quite small.

For a 'lighter' feel in handling, I found the Pfadt control arm bushing kit helped immensely. It made the car much 'lighter' to the touch.

I went to coil-over's strictly for track performance. Pfadt coil-over's are well respected and widely liked by those that use them. The adjustable feature can be a plus. I'm not trying to dissuade you from Pfadt coil-over's but after much consideration, I went with the non-adjustable LGM coil-over's. I wanted the Hypercoil springs, I liked the 'inverse' mounting and for me, the non-adjustable coil-over's would be 'right' for the vast majority of tracks I run on.

From my perspective, professional racing teams with highly paid, dedicated suspension engineer's often have trouble getting the right setup for a particular track. I know perhaps of handful of people I feel confident could properly dial-in a suspension for a particular track...given enough time and practice sessions to do so. I'm not one of them. I pretty much hit a track and go...I want a suspension I don't have to worry about dialing-in each time. I'm OK with a proper track alignment and adjusting tire pressures. Hell, by the time I find the perfect setup the weekend's over.

I like coil-over's but for me they're on strictly for track performance...my street ride certainly suffers from what I had. Perhaps the adjustable nature of the Pfadt coil-overs will help soften the street ride. I also realize there are 'general' recommended settings you can stick with if you don't want to dial-in the coil-over's for each particular track or application. I don't dispute adjustable coil-overs can be a plus.

I feel coil-over's are a plus but I'm just not sure they're going to give you a dramatic, less clumsy, more confidence inspiring package than your stock Z06 setup.

 

Thank you very much.

I am now a little less interested in the system if it does not fix those symptoms. I know on the tack it will be better but I am looking for daily improvement as well.

Sincerly,
Joe

Any input from others will be appreciatred!!!!!!

 

I would not put a coilover system on a daily driver and looking for daily driver improvements. Just go with a nice shock/strut package, better swaybars and uprgrade the bushings. I have had coilovers on daily drivers and they quickly turned into weekend only cars. I think you will be much happier with the improvements I suggested over the coilover system when talking abut improvements for a daily driven car with occasional race duties.

 

I am currently going back and forth with the idea of shock only & the coilover. I am just concerned that I may get frustrated and just do the coilover because the price I have is great, or I might not do anything letting this great price go away and no matter what I do will be the wrong decision.

Basically keep your opinions coming please!

Joe

 

I haven't explored every suspension option, but my Pfadt coilover suspension with urethane bushings was a quantum improvement over my stock Z51.

 

The dynamic of adjustable coilovers is the "adjustable" part

There are 20 different settings you can "adjust" the Pfadts to. I initially had them set very rigid and loved the control it gave me, however after a couple weeks of daily driving, I relaxed both ends up a little loosing a bit of performance but gaining more DD functionality.

IMO the shocks/coilovers are only one part of the picture. I am amazed at the potential of the Corvette.

 

The technical aspects of the clumsiness you feel consist of the tires and the shocks.

Tires
The EMT is a tech wonder and it is amazing that it performs as it does, but it is not technically a pneumatic tire, and actually does not behave like one. Because each EMT's sidewall must support 800lb structurally, you are dealing with a sidewall that has the vertical compliance of a block of granite. Bearing in mind that the original purpose of a pneumatic tire was to provide said compliance, you have part one of the problem. When you hit a bump, the tire transmits all force directly to the suspension, and absorps nothing. This means the tire bounces off the bump, setting up the suspension to oscillate up and down. This is why the car skips over bumps, and it is also the source of the differential-destroying wheelhop.

Suspension
The springs keep the car "suspended", and the shocks control oscillation. Again, because of the use of EMT tires, the corvette actually has TWO springs: the springs...and those tires. The stiffer the shock valving, the better and faster it controls these oscillations. There are also variations in control ability, with the conventional wisdom and theory being that, the larger the shock piston (more surface area to apply force), the better it can damp high-speed oscillation. Translation: big-pistoned shocks control suspensions better at a given stiffness setting, so you get a more compliant ride for the same level of control. This (and packaging) are the reason monotube shocks are the favored damper.

The Vette engineers faced a problem with the EMTs: adequate suspension control balanced against ride quality, and cost. They used a monotube shock, the Sachs unit, which has good, but not best components in the valve stack. The other problem was the performance / ride compromise. This they adressed by choosing a valving curve which was stiff on compression, but soft on rebound. The result is a softer street ride (less jarring), which you pay for in the form of floaty feeling at high speed and lack of wheel control over bumps and with wheelhop.

That's all I have time for now, but the bottom line is that if you really want to improve overall feel and control, you need to adress tires as much as anything else. Going to a high quality shock such as the Bilstein Sport will restore a substantial amount of wheel control because the valving is better and the rebound control is vastly improved over ANY C5/C6 shock and I include the C6Z shock. But you will still wind up with a stiffer ride. The Pfadts are certainly a nice piece and the adjustability is great, but the handling / ride tradeoffs still apply (soft shocks = good ride, sloppy handling - and vice versa) and it becomes an exercise in fiddling to suit the day's mood. Also, the Pfadt shock bodies look like Sprint / Midget car shocks to me (small) and theoretically do not have enough piston size to cope with the weight of the Corvette (although I have never heard a single complaint about track performance). The LGs are nice, having the inverted structure and using Bilstein shocks, but are probably too stiff for everyday use. The inverted concept is a good one (reducing unsprung weight), and I believe Pfadt now offers an inverted shock only.

In parting, I'll provide my opinion on the spring issue, which is what really drives the coilover decision. There has been much discussion of Cross-talk, a clever term originally coined by DRM on the C4. Let's explain "crosstalk". In simple terms, it is just another term for side-to-side energy transferrence in an "independent" suspension. Note that independent is in quotes. The bottom line is that a spring is a spring, whether traverse, coil, or torsion; whether made of laminate, steel, or Ti. There was some basis for the theory on the C4 because of the mounting system, but with the mounting system employed on C5/C6, that notion is silly. Besides that, anytime you use antiroll bars (swaybars) you have tons of "crosstalk" right there. In fact, the stiffer the bars and mounting systems, the more you get. After all, that is the mechanism by which swaybars work. Independent suspension my ***.

Hope this helps.

 

My $0.02.

Don't ignore the tires...they alone can make a huge difference.

As others have suggested, I'd try just some adjustable shocks and maybe swaybars before jumping in to a coilover setup.

Coilovers can definitely make a difference, but the majority of that difference is coming from changing spring and shock damping rates, not from the fact that you've got a coil spring instead of a leaf spring.

 

Handling includes tires without a doubt. I have penske shocks with dual rate coil overs and I can easily tell the difference in handling from a hoosier r6 to an a6. These are both top notch race tires and if you can feel the difference with them think of going from a runflat to a good tire.

I would not discount coilovers though for helping your handling. This weekend I was able to plant my car in spots where a c6z could not. Of course this is on a race track and the hardbar penske setup is top notch.

On the street I would think most people would like coilovers with an upgraded tire but many would be just as happy with upgrading swaybars, shocks and tires.

The nice part about coilovers is the adjustment. You want a sunday cruise make an adjustment. You want ***** to the wall make an adjustment. You have choices which are nice. The question though will you ever make the changes.

 

TTRotary & Wicked Weasel @ ECS I did just buy new tires and brake pads because mine were history at 18k miles.

I got the nitto NT-05's waiting to be installed once I figure out if I am doing the suspension or not so I can do it in 1 day. I am very away of the tires being an issue but was trying to fix the sloppiness of the shocks, and verified my suspicion that the stock shock of too soft of rebound to control the car properly. I do believe a shock only would fix 90% of my remaining problems. It is just do I want to tack the other 10% for another $1,000. At the track I experience a lot of load near bottoming out on high banked turns and the car obviously feels unsettled, however I do this 2-3 times per years. So for the rest of the year is it worth the extra coin plus will the adjustable tone down to equivalent or better/more comfortable ride for daily use if adjusted to setting 2 or 4.

In my situation would you do with shock only or take advantage of $2,000 installed Pfadt coilover, knowing it is a daily driver on really crappy roads. I rarely see the freeway, just cracked, bumpy, pothole roads. If I see the freeway I am siting still anyway.

 

I was all set to do the Pfadt Coilover and swaybar upgrade on my car last week and someone made a similar post about the tires.

I drive my car a lot like the original poster in this thread, though I may do a few more HPDEs than he does and an autocross or two.

I don't know what price he got for the package, but the price I got was a very good one too.

A few things scared me off about the coilovers.

Too many folks said that they would not do them on a primarily street driven car, though some said that they loved them on the street driven cars.

Some reports of excessive noise from the suspension. Squeaks, rattles and such. Some recommended tightening everything up again, and using loctite. I believe Pfadt calls it wicking loctite. You put it on after the bolts. At any rate, there was more than one post on increased suspension noise and road noise being transmitted into the car from the stiffer suspension.

Drilling two holes into the rear cargo area under the carpet to allow for adjusting the rear shocks really didn't scare me off, though it might be a consideration for some.

Finally, and it goes back to what TT Rotary says above, I was going to need tires. I couldn't see all of that suspension work and money spent only to still run on runcraps.

And then the real kicker, goes back to what Wayne O says. A lot of people may not realize it, but an incorrectly set suspension, can be downright dangerous.

I felt that with these shocks being fully adjustable, and in being honest with myself and admitting my not knowing really what I was doing when it came to suspension adjustments, I could wind up with a car which would behave somewhere outside of what I predicted during certain weather conditions or certain driving conditions.

This thread might help the original poster too.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...o-they-do.html

My advice to the OP would be to do a little reading up on coilovers, especially the Pfadts with their swaybar package. Listen to what the folk who drive primarily on the street have to say.

BTW, I made the decision to spend the money on a set of Nitto NT 05s as I needed tires anyway instead of the coilovers and then a new set of tires. I'll see what happens from there. I still may entertain the idea of coilovers though.

 

Adjustable shocks and swaybars can be done without going the coilover route. And ride height is already somewhat adjustable with the stock leaf springs. And all that stuff is fairly simple DIY install. For someone doing 2-3 track days/year, I just don't see what sinking the money into the coilovers really buys you.

 

Thats sort of what I was wrestling with. I'm doing a few track days a year, the rest of the time I have to live with this car on the street. Am I going to be satisfied driving it on the street which is where it spends most of it's time?

 

why not try a piece at a time?

do adjustable shocks...maybe that gives you everything you want.

if not, add the sways.

if you feel you need more spring rate, put stiffer leaf springs in.

 

True my point was more are you going to adjust them. Many people buy adjustable parts and never ever adjust them so is it even worth it?

All is really dependent on the owner and over all needs, you are right better sway, better shocks and better tires go a long way.

 

You sound like my buddy who said the same thing.

So now thats two people saying to do a piece at a time.

I'm probably going to take you guy's advice and go a piece at a time. But I would go the opposite direction though and start with the sways first instead of the shocks unless somehere here can tell me why I shouldn't.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...rs-review.html

I don't really want to fool with leaf springs though.

The problem is, if you get the Pfadt sways with the coilovers, you get a better package deal price wise than if you buy the two seperately.

Also, you can do all of the work in one shot while you have the car up. I'm told that you're looking at a few hours work to get everything installed.

I guess though one could buy the package and then sell the coilovers if they were satisfied with just the sways.