Dispute with e6bailey/Stuart
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,013
Likes: 80
From: Manitoba/San Jose del Cabo
Cruise-In III Veteran
St. Jude Donor '11
The story told here is almost correct.
First of all I had pictures of the tires posted very clearly. Look at the thread as to the front tires. The buyer for those tires had no problem.
The tires in the pictures that he is showing don't look like the tires I sent out but let's assume they were. I am dumb enough to send them out with a nail sticking in them.
I DID tell the buyer that I would take them back less shipping cost. He contacted me like a week after I made the offer and told me he wanted to return them. Not only did he want to return them , he wanted me to pay shipping both ways. That is when I told him to forget it and keep them.
For the next several days after pay-pal rejected his claim he e-mailed me about 3-4 times per day, so I told him "TO GET A LIFE" and when he then still would not quit I offered him $200.00 figuring he was hard up for the money.
I am a power seller on eBay with a 100% feedback. My average sale is $50,000.00. You don't achieve that by screwing people.
You guys decide for yourself.[/I][/B]
First of all I had pictures of the tires posted very clearly. Look at the thread as to the front tires. The buyer for those tires had no problem.
The tires in the pictures that he is showing don't look like the tires I sent out but let's assume they were. I am dumb enough to send them out with a nail sticking in them.
I DID tell the buyer that I would take them back less shipping cost. He contacted me like a week after I made the offer and told me he wanted to return them. Not only did he want to return them , he wanted me to pay shipping both ways. That is when I told him to forget it and keep them.
For the next several days after pay-pal rejected his claim he e-mailed me about 3-4 times per day, so I told him "TO GET A LIFE" and when he then still would not quit I offered him $200.00 figuring he was hard up for the money.
I am a power seller on eBay with a 100% feedback. My average sale is $50,000.00. You don't achieve that by screwing people.
You guys decide for yourself.[/I][/B]
Pro
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 690
Likes: 1
From: Wisconsin
It is extremely hard to take sides in a matter like this. You read the buyers post and want to take his side and then you read the sellers post and think well maybe I am not getting the whole story. Like most people here are saying it is a roll of the dice to buy something off from a forum like this because it is not set up to legally help out in a case like this. Most of us have had good experiences with buying and selling and some have had negative. I cannot and will not takes sides on this issue as I feel there are details on both sides being left out. I will however stay tuned for further information....................
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,072
Likes: 1
From: Oklahoma City OK
St. Jude '10
Here is the first set of PM's
Me:5/10/10 Originally Posted by tuffLUV
Stuart, how did you determine the remaining tread on the tires you sold me? These are not 80% tires. I took them to 2 different tire shops who each said they are more like 80% worn. One of them has a screw in it sticking 3/8" inside the tire. I realize a tire shop will be a little more critical but they both had tread depth gauges which read between 3/32" and 4/32" in the center of the tire where the wear bars are. New these tires are 10/32" so 80% should have been in the range of 8/32".
Stuart:5/10/10 When I had my new ones installed that is what the tire shop told me and compared side by side with the new ones I agreed. Also the pictures I showed were very clear.
If you feel I lied I will refund the purchase price. Please just send them back.
Me: 5/10/10 I didn't assume you lied, actually I assumed maybe you just didn't know any better. That's why I went to 2 different shops to ask there opinion on the wear of the tires. I didn't tell them that I bought them, just asked the degree of wear. There was a difference on where to measure, one of them measured directly on the wear bar and the other measured beside it. But both measured the center of the tire, not the outside where the tread is quite a bit deeper. But even when I asked to have the outside measured they come up with 5/32" to 6/32". I'm curious how many miles were on them. The pics were clear and the center of the tires does look shallow, I just took your word for the wear. It's hard to put a depth gauge on a picture. This is disappointing to me and I appreciate your offer to refund the purchase. Please give me a couple days to decide what to do. I may try to get a couple more opinions just to be sure. The second shop I went to said he would fix the screw hole for free.
Me: 5/17/10 Stuart,
I'm going to send the tires back, I don't think I should have to pay the return shipping but if I have to it's better than keeping them. I would suggest you take them to another tire shop besides the one who suggested you sell them at 80% to get another opinion before attemting to sell them at 80% again. If you have someone else who you can sell them to I will ship them directly to them so that you don't have another shipping fee.
Stuart: 5/17/10 1st: I dont think that i will take them back at this point. I made you an offer 1 week ago and would have expected an answer at that point and not 6 days later.
2nd: if I did I would not refund the shipping to you nor would I pay the shipping back as I am very confident that I did not misrepresent them. I ended up paying$30.00 more for shipping then what I quoted/charged you. Figuring what it will cost you to ship them back you would have anly about $100.00 in both. At that price I think you be way ahead to sell them yourself.
Me: 5/18/10 Check your PM's I did respond to yours and asked for a couple of days to decide what to do. What does a few days have to do with sending them back? You clearly misrepresented the tires, whether by ignorance or dishonesty. These tires are nearly worn out, how can I sell them unless I scam someone else?
Stuart: 5/18/10 What is there to think about for a couple of days?? i WOULD HAVE CONSIDDERED TALKING ABOUT IT HAD YOU NOT OPEND PAY-PAL DISPUTE. FOR YOUR INFO THEY WERE NOT MISREPRESENTED AND YOU DID RECEIVE THEM. LETS SEE WHAT PAY-PAL DOES. NORMALY ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS DELIVERY!!!
Me: 5/18/10 You made it pretty clear in your last PM that you were no longer willing to work with me. I opened the Paypal dispute because I didn't want to wait until it was too late and would not have any recourse at all. The Paypal dispute doesn't do anything unless it goes to the next level. The tires were clearly represented as 80% remaining tread in writting. And they are clearly not. You also represented them as never being patched and while technically that may be true, you neglected to mention a screw in one of them. If I sell something I go overboard to make sure what I sell is worthy of the asking price. In this case you exaggerated the condition to be way beyond their actual usefulness and I would never have inquired about them, let alone purchased them had they been represented as even 50% which is still beyond their actual condition.
Me:5/10/10 Originally Posted by tuffLUV
Stuart, how did you determine the remaining tread on the tires you sold me? These are not 80% tires. I took them to 2 different tire shops who each said they are more like 80% worn. One of them has a screw in it sticking 3/8" inside the tire. I realize a tire shop will be a little more critical but they both had tread depth gauges which read between 3/32" and 4/32" in the center of the tire where the wear bars are. New these tires are 10/32" so 80% should have been in the range of 8/32".
Stuart:5/10/10 When I had my new ones installed that is what the tire shop told me and compared side by side with the new ones I agreed. Also the pictures I showed were very clear.
If you feel I lied I will refund the purchase price. Please just send them back.
Me: 5/10/10 I didn't assume you lied, actually I assumed maybe you just didn't know any better. That's why I went to 2 different shops to ask there opinion on the wear of the tires. I didn't tell them that I bought them, just asked the degree of wear. There was a difference on where to measure, one of them measured directly on the wear bar and the other measured beside it. But both measured the center of the tire, not the outside where the tread is quite a bit deeper. But even when I asked to have the outside measured they come up with 5/32" to 6/32". I'm curious how many miles were on them. The pics were clear and the center of the tires does look shallow, I just took your word for the wear. It's hard to put a depth gauge on a picture. This is disappointing to me and I appreciate your offer to refund the purchase. Please give me a couple days to decide what to do. I may try to get a couple more opinions just to be sure. The second shop I went to said he would fix the screw hole for free.
Me: 5/17/10 Stuart,
I'm going to send the tires back, I don't think I should have to pay the return shipping but if I have to it's better than keeping them. I would suggest you take them to another tire shop besides the one who suggested you sell them at 80% to get another opinion before attemting to sell them at 80% again. If you have someone else who you can sell them to I will ship them directly to them so that you don't have another shipping fee.
Stuart: 5/17/10 1st: I dont think that i will take them back at this point. I made you an offer 1 week ago and would have expected an answer at that point and not 6 days later.
2nd: if I did I would not refund the shipping to you nor would I pay the shipping back as I am very confident that I did not misrepresent them. I ended up paying$30.00 more for shipping then what I quoted/charged you. Figuring what it will cost you to ship them back you would have anly about $100.00 in both. At that price I think you be way ahead to sell them yourself.
Me: 5/18/10 Check your PM's I did respond to yours and asked for a couple of days to decide what to do. What does a few days have to do with sending them back? You clearly misrepresented the tires, whether by ignorance or dishonesty. These tires are nearly worn out, how can I sell them unless I scam someone else?
Stuart: 5/18/10 What is there to think about for a couple of days?? i WOULD HAVE CONSIDDERED TALKING ABOUT IT HAD YOU NOT OPEND PAY-PAL DISPUTE. FOR YOUR INFO THEY WERE NOT MISREPRESENTED AND YOU DID RECEIVE THEM. LETS SEE WHAT PAY-PAL DOES. NORMALY ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS DELIVERY!!!
Me: 5/18/10 You made it pretty clear in your last PM that you were no longer willing to work with me. I opened the Paypal dispute because I didn't want to wait until it was too late and would not have any recourse at all. The Paypal dispute doesn't do anything unless it goes to the next level. The tires were clearly represented as 80% remaining tread in writting. And they are clearly not. You also represented them as never being patched and while technically that may be true, you neglected to mention a screw in one of them. If I sell something I go overboard to make sure what I sell is worthy of the asking price. In this case you exaggerated the condition to be way beyond their actual usefulness and I would never have inquired about them, let alone purchased them had they been represented as even 50% which is still beyond their actual condition.
Goon Squad King of Battle
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 118,306
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St. Jude Donor '08 thru '23
Here is the first set of PM's
Me:5/10/10 Originally Posted by tuffLUV
Stuart, how did you determine the remaining tread on the tires you sold me? These are not 80% tires. I took them to 2 different tire shops who each said they are more like 80% worn. One of them has a screw in it sticking 3/8" inside the tire. I realize a tire shop will be a little more critical but they both had tread depth gauges which read between 3/32" and 4/32" in the center of the tire where the wear bars are. New these tires are 10/32" so 80% should have been in the range of 8/32".
Stuart:5/10/10 When I had my new ones installed that is what the tire shop told me and compared side by side with the new ones I agreed. Also the pictures I showed were very clear.
If you feel I lied I will refund the purchase price. Please just send them back.
Me: 5/10/10 I didn't assume you lied, actually I assumed maybe you just didn't know any better. That's why I went to 2 different shops to ask there opinion on the wear of the tires. I didn't tell them that I bought them, just asked the degree of wear. There was a difference on where to measure, one of them measured directly on the wear bar and the other measured beside it. But both measured the center of the tire, not the outside where the tread is quite a bit deeper. But even when I asked to have the outside measured they come up with 5/32" to 6/32". I'm curious how many miles were on them. The pics were clear and the center of the tires does look shallow, I just took your word for the wear. It's hard to put a depth gauge on a picture. This is disappointing to me and I appreciate your offer to refund the purchase. Please give me a couple days to decide what to do. I may try to get a couple more opinions just to be sure. The second shop I went to said he would fix the screw hole for free.
Me: 5/17/10 Stuart,
I'm going to send the tires back, I don't think I should have to pay the return shipping but if I have to it's better than keeping them. I would suggest you take them to another tire shop besides the one who suggested you sell them at 80% to get another opinion before attemting to sell them at 80% again. If you have someone else who you can sell them to I will ship them directly to them so that you don't have another shipping fee.
Stuart: 5/17/10 1st: I dont think that i will take them back at this point. I made you an offer 1 week ago and would have expected an answer at that point and not 6 days later.
2nd: if I did I would not refund the shipping to you nor would I pay the shipping back as I am very confident that I did not misrepresent them. I ended up paying$30.00 more for shipping then what I quoted/charged you. Figuring what it will cost you to ship them back you would have anly about $100.00 in both. At that price I think you be way ahead to sell them yourself.
Me: 5/18/10 Check your PM's I did respond to yours and asked for a couple of days to decide what to do. What does a few days have to do with sending them back? You clearly misrepresented the tires, whether by ignorance or dishonesty. These tires are nearly worn out, how can I sell them unless I scam someone else?
Stuart: 5/18/10 What is there to think about for a couple of days?? i WOULD HAVE CONSIDDERED TALKING ABOUT IT HAD YOU NOT OPEND PAY-PAL DISPUTE. FOR YOUR INFO THEY WERE NOT MISREPRESENTED AND YOU DID RECEIVE THEM. LETS SEE WHAT PAY-PAL DOES. NORMALY ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS DELIVERY!!!
Me: 5/18/10 You made it pretty clear in your last PM that you were no longer willing to work with me. I opened the Paypal dispute because I didn't want to wait until it was too late and would not have any recourse at all. The Paypal dispute doesn't do anything unless it goes to the next level. The tires were clearly represented as 80% remaining tread in writting. And they are clearly not. You also represented them as never being patched and while technically that may be true, you neglected to mention a screw in one of them. If I sell something I go overboard to make sure what I sell is worthy of the asking price. In this case you exaggerated the condition to be way beyond their actual usefulness and I would never have inquired about them, let alone purchased them had they been represented as even 50% which is still beyond their actual condition.
Me:5/10/10 Originally Posted by tuffLUV
Stuart, how did you determine the remaining tread on the tires you sold me? These are not 80% tires. I took them to 2 different tire shops who each said they are more like 80% worn. One of them has a screw in it sticking 3/8" inside the tire. I realize a tire shop will be a little more critical but they both had tread depth gauges which read between 3/32" and 4/32" in the center of the tire where the wear bars are. New these tires are 10/32" so 80% should have been in the range of 8/32".
Stuart:5/10/10 When I had my new ones installed that is what the tire shop told me and compared side by side with the new ones I agreed. Also the pictures I showed were very clear.
If you feel I lied I will refund the purchase price. Please just send them back.
Me: 5/10/10 I didn't assume you lied, actually I assumed maybe you just didn't know any better. That's why I went to 2 different shops to ask there opinion on the wear of the tires. I didn't tell them that I bought them, just asked the degree of wear. There was a difference on where to measure, one of them measured directly on the wear bar and the other measured beside it. But both measured the center of the tire, not the outside where the tread is quite a bit deeper. But even when I asked to have the outside measured they come up with 5/32" to 6/32". I'm curious how many miles were on them. The pics were clear and the center of the tires does look shallow, I just took your word for the wear. It's hard to put a depth gauge on a picture. This is disappointing to me and I appreciate your offer to refund the purchase. Please give me a couple days to decide what to do. I may try to get a couple more opinions just to be sure. The second shop I went to said he would fix the screw hole for free.
Me: 5/17/10 Stuart,
I'm going to send the tires back, I don't think I should have to pay the return shipping but if I have to it's better than keeping them. I would suggest you take them to another tire shop besides the one who suggested you sell them at 80% to get another opinion before attemting to sell them at 80% again. If you have someone else who you can sell them to I will ship them directly to them so that you don't have another shipping fee.
Stuart: 5/17/10 1st: I dont think that i will take them back at this point. I made you an offer 1 week ago and would have expected an answer at that point and not 6 days later.
2nd: if I did I would not refund the shipping to you nor would I pay the shipping back as I am very confident that I did not misrepresent them. I ended up paying$30.00 more for shipping then what I quoted/charged you. Figuring what it will cost you to ship them back you would have anly about $100.00 in both. At that price I think you be way ahead to sell them yourself.
Me: 5/18/10 Check your PM's I did respond to yours and asked for a couple of days to decide what to do. What does a few days have to do with sending them back? You clearly misrepresented the tires, whether by ignorance or dishonesty. These tires are nearly worn out, how can I sell them unless I scam someone else?
Stuart: 5/18/10 What is there to think about for a couple of days?? i WOULD HAVE CONSIDDERED TALKING ABOUT IT HAD YOU NOT OPEND PAY-PAL DISPUTE. FOR YOUR INFO THEY WERE NOT MISREPRESENTED AND YOU DID RECEIVE THEM. LETS SEE WHAT PAY-PAL DOES. NORMALY ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS DELIVERY!!!
Me: 5/18/10 You made it pretty clear in your last PM that you were no longer willing to work with me. I opened the Paypal dispute because I didn't want to wait until it was too late and would not have any recourse at all. The Paypal dispute doesn't do anything unless it goes to the next level. The tires were clearly represented as 80% remaining tread in writting. And they are clearly not. You also represented them as never being patched and while technically that may be true, you neglected to mention a screw in one of them. If I sell something I go overboard to make sure what I sell is worthy of the asking price. In this case you exaggerated the condition to be way beyond their actual usefulness and I would never have inquired about them, let alone purchased them had they been represented as even 50% which is still beyond their actual condition.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,072
Likes: 1
From: Oklahoma City OK
St. Jude '10
The following are our emails offline. To save time I delete the part from PayPal that just explains they won't do anything and closed the dispute.
Stuart: 5/18/10 Subject: THAT SUCKS WHEN WE GET UNREASONABLE!!!
Me: 5/18/10 I fail to see where I was being unreasonable. You said you would take the tires back and refund. One week later you convince yourself there is a time limit on honesty or integrity. What is your definition of 80%? Is it just a random figure you use to advertise your item? I opened the Paypal dispute as an effort to see what my options were. You obviously know they won't do anything. I wonder how you must feel about yourself. Does it bother you to cheat people?
Stuart: 5/18/10I do not feel that I cheated anyone. I assume you can look at pictures. I would have possibly considered taking them back had you not started with you not paying shipping and then pay-pal.
Thank You,
Me: 5/19/10 So I guess we're done here? Your not going to take any responsibility for selling bad tires? What about your claim that the tires haven't been patched. There is a screw sticking through one of them. Why would you make that statement if it wasn't important and where is the picture of the screw? I don't remember seeing that on your post.
Stuart: 5/19/10 The tires never were patched confirming your statement below. A nail is not a patch. Besides they came of my car so I seriously doubt they had a nail sticking in them.
If you are so hard up for money are you think I screwed you send back the tires and I will pay you $200.00 for them.
Thanks'
Me: 5/20/10 Let's be fair, there is a big difference between getting what you paid for and being hard up for money. Your offer only compounds the problem as you are just making a profit and getting the tires back. If your willing to take them back the only issue should be who pays shipping. I assume you can look at pictures too. This is the statement you used to describe the condition of the tires.
"The backs are 285/35ZR19 Goodyear Eagle F1’s they are in excellent shape and have about 80% tread life remaining on each tire. The tires do not show any signs of ever being patched or repaired."
80% is a term that is actually measureable, not just a phrase to glorify something. You can see in these pics that the true remaining tread is 40% or less. The screw in pic 100 0416.JPG is definitely yours, the shipping label still hasn’t been removed and the screw is under it. The tire will have to be patched or repaired before it can be used. The fact that you made the statement about being patched or repaired acknowledges you felt it was an important factor in buying/selling tires. Also, once a tire gets to 40% or less it’s no longer as safe as it should be. It was the 40% that I didn’t get that I needed and paid for.
I will ship them back to you at my cost if you will refund the full $340.00 less the same cost I’m paying to ship them back. That is more than fair since you will basically be getting the tires back at no cost to you. If you thought the tires were worth what you charged I wouldn’t think you would have a problem with that.
Stuart: 5/20/10BILL:
PLEASE GET A LIFE. I DONT AHVE TIME TO KEEP GOING BACK AND FORTH. THIS IS THE LAST TIME I WILL RESPOND. ACCEPT MY OFFER OR KEEP THE TIRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stuart: 5/18/10 Subject: THAT SUCKS WHEN WE GET UNREASONABLE!!!
Me: 5/18/10 I fail to see where I was being unreasonable. You said you would take the tires back and refund. One week later you convince yourself there is a time limit on honesty or integrity. What is your definition of 80%? Is it just a random figure you use to advertise your item? I opened the Paypal dispute as an effort to see what my options were. You obviously know they won't do anything. I wonder how you must feel about yourself. Does it bother you to cheat people?
Stuart: 5/18/10I do not feel that I cheated anyone. I assume you can look at pictures. I would have possibly considered taking them back had you not started with you not paying shipping and then pay-pal.
Thank You,
Me: 5/19/10 So I guess we're done here? Your not going to take any responsibility for selling bad tires? What about your claim that the tires haven't been patched. There is a screw sticking through one of them. Why would you make that statement if it wasn't important and where is the picture of the screw? I don't remember seeing that on your post.
Stuart: 5/19/10 The tires never were patched confirming your statement below. A nail is not a patch. Besides they came of my car so I seriously doubt they had a nail sticking in them.
If you are so hard up for money are you think I screwed you send back the tires and I will pay you $200.00 for them.
Thanks'
Me: 5/20/10 Let's be fair, there is a big difference between getting what you paid for and being hard up for money. Your offer only compounds the problem as you are just making a profit and getting the tires back. If your willing to take them back the only issue should be who pays shipping. I assume you can look at pictures too. This is the statement you used to describe the condition of the tires.
"The backs are 285/35ZR19 Goodyear Eagle F1’s they are in excellent shape and have about 80% tread life remaining on each tire. The tires do not show any signs of ever being patched or repaired."
80% is a term that is actually measureable, not just a phrase to glorify something. You can see in these pics that the true remaining tread is 40% or less. The screw in pic 100 0416.JPG is definitely yours, the shipping label still hasn’t been removed and the screw is under it. The tire will have to be patched or repaired before it can be used. The fact that you made the statement about being patched or repaired acknowledges you felt it was an important factor in buying/selling tires. Also, once a tire gets to 40% or less it’s no longer as safe as it should be. It was the 40% that I didn’t get that I needed and paid for.
I will ship them back to you at my cost if you will refund the full $340.00 less the same cost I’m paying to ship them back. That is more than fair since you will basically be getting the tires back at no cost to you. If you thought the tires were worth what you charged I wouldn’t think you would have a problem with that.
Stuart: 5/20/10BILL:
PLEASE GET A LIFE. I DONT AHVE TIME TO KEEP GOING BACK AND FORTH. THIS IS THE LAST TIME I WILL RESPOND. ACCEPT MY OFFER OR KEEP THE TIRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,753
Likes: 210
From: North Western Connecticut
that's exactly what I thought! $340 is going to sink the seller??? I think not! Bottom line, both parties unhappy! Buyer returns the tires pays freight and seller gives full refund?? Big freaken deal..... no harm, no foul unless the $340 bucks is going to bankrupt seller?? I really wonder who is hard up for money here????
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 46,295
Likes: 2,596
From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
that's exactly what I thought! $340 is going to sink the seller??? I think not! Bottom line, both parties unhappy! Buyer returns the tires pays freight and seller gives full refund?? Big freaken deal..... no harm, no foul unless the $340 bucks is going to bankrupt seller?? I really wonder who is hard up for money here????Corvette Stories
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,767
Likes: 19
From: East Texas
This is why I hate to sell used tires!! guys always think you can buy almost new tires for 1/2 price!! there used tires!! he had pics you can see they look used in the pic!!you get what you pay for!! If you want like new tires go spend lots of $$ and buy new!!
I would have got a patch when i installed them and rode with it they look ok to me!they still have good tread. its not worth the pain your going through
I would have got a patch when i installed them and rode with it they look ok to me!they still have good tread. its not worth the pain your going through
Last edited by a/c man; May 23, 2010 at 09:02 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,574
Likes: 167
From: Frederick, MD
If I ever bought used tires I would have the seller send a picture with the tire and something that I can tell the depth.
If I was a seller, I would take photos galore. Isn't their a SN or something on the tire? Something that can identify the tire.
If I was a seller, I would take photos galore. Isn't their a SN or something on the tire? Something that can identify the tire.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Here
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I believe in the Beer Fairy
closed at request of OP as thread is degrading.
If seller wishes to continue offline thats fine.
If seller wishes to continue offline thats fine.
