$45 bucks more for 911 Interior ?
03-02-2011, 07:42 PM
#21
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It would seem to me that in order to make a fair assessment, it would require being in the environment of each for a while. And even then, it would be a small minority, I suspect.
03-02-2011, 09:21 PM
#22
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I have no opinion, other than it would be quite expensive to conduct probably. I guess you could set up a poll for those that had recent late model Porsche and Corvette ownership to vote.
It would seem to me that in order to make a fair assessment, it would require being in the environment of each for a while. And even then, it would be a small minority, I suspect.
It would seem to me that in order to make a fair assessment, it would require being in the environment of each for a while. And even then, it would be a small minority, I suspect.
03-02-2011, 09:29 PM
#23
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03-02-2011, 09:38 PM
#24
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You understand the $45 is for the LOOK, also that's the PART COST not the ED&D + Tooling costs.
In Automotive there are 3 costs: Tooling, Development (GM calls it ED&D), and Part Cost. Part Cost is the cost of the actual parts, Tooling is obviously the costs of the equipment that makes the parts. Development is the cost of engineering the part. Tooling + Development are always larger than the Part Cost even when you add up the Part Cost over the entire year.
For example, parts cost in the $10-$1000 range. Tooling costs in the $100,000 - $1,000,000 range. Development costs in the $1,000,000 to $5,000,000 range or MORE! On top of that you have Prototype Tooling (short term limited use tooling, quicker to churn out parts but 10-100x more expensive), Prototype Parts are 10-100x the regular part costs and made of "special" materials mostly to get them to the OEM quickly.
OEM's fight suppliers over a $1 increase in part cost like you or I would fight over $10,000 or more. So a $45 part cost increase is HUGE, astronomical in cost.
Back on point. Chrysler didn't actually make the interiors that much nicer. They just started using a little softer touch plastics some faux leather and such instead of the cheapest of cheap hard plastics. Touch the interiors they are nicer, but still not as nice as even some of the interior Corvette bits.
In Automotive there are 3 costs: Tooling, Development (GM calls it ED&D), and Part Cost. Part Cost is the cost of the actual parts, Tooling is obviously the costs of the equipment that makes the parts. Development is the cost of engineering the part. Tooling + Development are always larger than the Part Cost even when you add up the Part Cost over the entire year.
For example, parts cost in the $10-$1000 range. Tooling costs in the $100,000 - $1,000,000 range. Development costs in the $1,000,000 to $5,000,000 range or MORE! On top of that you have Prototype Tooling (short term limited use tooling, quicker to churn out parts but 10-100x more expensive), Prototype Parts are 10-100x the regular part costs and made of "special" materials mostly to get them to the OEM quickly.
OEM's fight suppliers over a $1 increase in part cost like you or I would fight over $10,000 or more. So a $45 part cost increase is HUGE, astronomical in cost.
Back on point. Chrysler didn't actually make the interiors that much nicer. They just started using a little softer touch plastics some faux leather and such instead of the cheapest of cheap hard plastics. Touch the interiors they are nicer, but still not as nice as even some of the interior Corvette bits.
03-02-2011, 10:42 PM
#25
Any interior is better then any Corvette interior!You can buy a 20k Hyundai and be an equal to a 50 grand Corvette and if you buy a 30 grand one,your's is nicer.The 4LT is nice but really,vinyl shift and ebrake boots??For all that money??Give me a friggin break! Porche has some nice material in there!!GM is just CHEAP,AND IT SHOWS!!! I would not pay an extra 5 grand for a better interior because they have raised the price on the Corvette non stop for years and haven't done squat to the interior to justify the raise!!! and just for the record,I love my Vette AND HAVE ADDED SOME DSVETTES parts to make it look good.
03-02-2011, 10:51 PM
#26
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qual·i·ty (kw
l
-t
)
n. pl. qual·i·ties 1. a. An inherent or distinguishing characteristic; a property.
b. A personal trait, especially a character trait: "The most vital quality a soldier can possess is self-confidence" (George S. Patton).
2. Essential character; nature: "The quality of mercy is not strain'd" (Shakespeare).
3. a. Superiority of kind: an intellect of unquestioned quality.
b. Degree or grade of excellence: yard goods of low quality.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
To use an extreme example, I think most people would rather sit on a seat covered with smooth finished leather than on a seat covered with sandpaper, and that they would identify the leather as a "higher quality" material to sit on than sandpaper. An example of quality closer to reality would be the difference between leather and Naugahyde. There is no question that there would be some people who prefer to sit on Naugahyde, but I'd guess that the majority of people would prefer leather given just two choices.
In terms of an interior's design, flow, and functionality, I think most people could identify quality differences through touch and sight.
l-t) n. pl. qual·i·ties 1. a. An inherent or distinguishing characteristic; a property.
b. A personal trait, especially a character trait: "The most vital quality a soldier can possess is self-confidence" (George S. Patton).
2. Essential character; nature: "The quality of mercy is not strain'd" (Shakespeare).
3. a. Superiority of kind: an intellect of unquestioned quality.
b. Degree or grade of excellence: yard goods of low quality.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
To use an extreme example, I think most people would rather sit on a seat covered with smooth finished leather than on a seat covered with sandpaper, and that they would identify the leather as a "higher quality" material to sit on than sandpaper. An example of quality closer to reality would be the difference between leather and Naugahyde. There is no question that there would be some people who prefer to sit on Naugahyde, but I'd guess that the majority of people would prefer leather given just two choices.
In terms of an interior's design, flow, and functionality, I think most people could identify quality differences through touch and sight.
03-03-2011, 12:35 AM
#27
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Well, IMHO, form follows function is the rule. And I think that Chevrolet has done that with the current Corvette. Ergonomically, every gizmo and gadget that needs to be operated is situated (to me) where it needs to be to assist me in having a smooth experience operating the car. I can't say that my Cayman S was better. Well, I could say that but it wouldn't be true. Cup holder location comes to mind for one. The lack of an oil temperature gauge for another.
Regarding quality, if interior "posh" like leather, I don't know whether the leather seats are "better" than the ones in the vette. Actually, I had $3000 extra adaptive sport seats. Based on price they were better. Based on the number of ways to adjust them, they were better. based on comfort, they were inferior to the vette - IMHO. Best 2 out of 3 - I guess they were better - nonsense. And even if they were they weren't worth it at the cost.
The switches were small, but functional. The plastic parts were cheap - they were not at all better.
If the leather environment and gauges and gizmos define percepted quality on the whole, then an early 80s 911SC is superior to any Porsche today, regarding luxury. The components and craftsmanship was superior.
This shouldn't be a surprise. Pretty much every aspect of most all product has made manufacturing adjustments to control costs and maintain some profit.
And personally, I am willing throw plush out the window to get performance in exchange.
Does a Hyundai do 0-60 in 4 seconds? Nope. That's why they put a "better" interior in the car.
And you know what, I would much rather be on the roadway with a whole bunch of speeding Corvette owner's with stark, inferior interiors, than a few well appointed Hyundais, Hondas, or Toyotas. I want the other driver to be focused on driving and not settling into the overstuffed leather recliner, enjoying a casual call with the family.
But, then again, that's just me.
Regarding quality, if interior "posh" like leather, I don't know whether the leather seats are "better" than the ones in the vette. Actually, I had $3000 extra adaptive sport seats. Based on price they were better. Based on the number of ways to adjust them, they were better. based on comfort, they were inferior to the vette - IMHO. Best 2 out of 3 - I guess they were better - nonsense. And even if they were they weren't worth it at the cost.
The switches were small, but functional. The plastic parts were cheap - they were not at all better.
If the leather environment and gauges and gizmos define percepted quality on the whole, then an early 80s 911SC is superior to any Porsche today, regarding luxury. The components and craftsmanship was superior.
This shouldn't be a surprise. Pretty much every aspect of most all product has made manufacturing adjustments to control costs and maintain some profit.
And personally, I am willing throw plush out the window to get performance in exchange.
Does a Hyundai do 0-60 in 4 seconds? Nope. That's why they put a "better" interior in the car.
And you know what, I would much rather be on the roadway with a whole bunch of speeding Corvette owner's with stark, inferior interiors, than a few well appointed Hyundais, Hondas, or Toyotas. I want the other driver to be focused on driving and not settling into the overstuffed leather recliner, enjoying a casual call with the family.
But, then again, that's just me.
Last edited by fmarshall; 03-03-2011 at 12:49 AM.
03-03-2011, 01:01 AM
#28
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '11
Since the OP mentioned Chrysler, I must comment. Just bought a 2011 Grand Cherokee. Our fourth. Quality lacking in the first three, we like 'em and put up with the pain.
The previous 2005 had the cheapest interior I've ever owned. Hard plastic all over! The 2011 is a 200% improvement. Friends who snub their noses unless Japanese or European have been very impressed. Amazed is a better term.
So, cost? I paid two grand more for the 2011 than the '05. Got a lot of better stuff, and a HUGE improvement in the interior. Yes, Chrylser will sell more Jeeps than GM will sell Corvettes, so they can spread the cost. But a lesson. You have to ORDER certain Grand Cherokees. They're selling! Check the auto blogs. A huge part of Chryslers comeback is based on one thing. Improving the interiors.
I am not a hater of the Corvette interior. For the money, what can beat it? However, GM should pay attention to the opportunities.
The previous 2005 had the cheapest interior I've ever owned. Hard plastic all over! The 2011 is a 200% improvement. Friends who snub their noses unless Japanese or European have been very impressed. Amazed is a better term.
So, cost? I paid two grand more for the 2011 than the '05. Got a lot of better stuff, and a HUGE improvement in the interior. Yes, Chrylser will sell more Jeeps than GM will sell Corvettes, so they can spread the cost. But a lesson. You have to ORDER certain Grand Cherokees. They're selling! Check the auto blogs. A huge part of Chryslers comeback is based on one thing. Improving the interiors.
I am not a hater of the Corvette interior. For the money, what can beat it? However, GM should pay attention to the opportunities.
03-03-2011, 08:20 AM
#30
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I'm the Op and OK I'll give the perception theory a shot:
Durability quality:driver's seat in Corvette shows wear in three years with few driving miles when compared to my 07 Audi which has 2 1/2 times the mileage.
Fit and finish quality: Does the product scratch,stain easily? Hard to keep clean. Finish is individual perception, but cheap feeling/looking is not. 90% of the time you get what you pay for Ex: painted plastic vrs. Carbon fiber or brushed Aluminum vrs.chromed plastic trim pieces. Not Rocket Science here, simple Common Sense will prevail.
Just passing the message on with regard Dodge/Chrysler spending an additional $107 on their interiors and having them be considerably more attractive in the consumer's eyes.I hope Corvette follows this foward thinking in the New Corvette.
Durability quality:driver's seat in Corvette shows wear in three years with few driving miles when compared to my 07 Audi which has 2 1/2 times the mileage.
Fit and finish quality: Does the product scratch,stain easily? Hard to keep clean. Finish is individual perception, but cheap feeling/looking is not. 90% of the time you get what you pay for Ex: painted plastic vrs. Carbon fiber or brushed Aluminum vrs.chromed plastic trim pieces. Not Rocket Science here, simple Common Sense will prevail.
Just passing the message on with regard Dodge/Chrysler spending an additional $107 on their interiors and having them be considerably more attractive in the consumer's eyes.I hope Corvette follows this foward thinking in the New Corvette.
Last edited by QUAKEJAKE; 03-03-2011 at 08:35 AM.
03-03-2011, 08:34 AM
#31
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Since the OP mentioned Chrysler, I must comment. Just bought a 2011 Grand Cherokee. Our fourth. Quality lacking in the first three, we like 'em and put up with the pain.
The previous 2005 had the cheapest interior I've ever owned. Hard plastic all over! The 2011 is a 200% improvement. Friends who snub their noses unless Japanese or European have been very impressed. Amazed is a better term.
So, cost? I paid two grand more for the 2011 than the '05. Got a lot of better stuff, and a HUGE improvement in the interior. Yes, Chrylser will sell more Jeeps than GM will sell Corvettes, so they can spread the cost. But a lesson. You have to ORDER certain Grand Cherokees. They're selling! Check the auto blogs. A huge part of Chryslers comeback is based on one thing. Improving the interiors.
I am not a hater of the Corvette interior. For the money, what can beat it? However, GM should pay attention to the opportunities.
The previous 2005 had the cheapest interior I've ever owned. Hard plastic all over! The 2011 is a 200% improvement. Friends who snub their noses unless Japanese or European have been very impressed. Amazed is a better term.
So, cost? I paid two grand more for the 2011 than the '05. Got a lot of better stuff, and a HUGE improvement in the interior. Yes, Chrylser will sell more Jeeps than GM will sell Corvettes, so they can spread the cost. But a lesson. You have to ORDER certain Grand Cherokees. They're selling! Check the auto blogs. A huge part of Chryslers comeback is based on one thing. Improving the interiors.
I am not a hater of the Corvette interior. For the money, what can beat it? However, GM should pay attention to the opportunities.
03-03-2011, 08:37 AM
#32
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Bingo ,the whole point of my thread is stated here. Would I pay $6K to get a "better interior" or even upgrade the 3 to a 4LZ trim,in a Corvette ,NO. I own another car to satisfy my luxury desires. But as the article states if "A $45.00 difference btween a C6 and 911 interior" is accurate then who would not want an interior of that kind of Quality is kidding themselves.
Give me a legitimate sports-car seat setup, good steering wheel, and leather-wrapped dash/console/door panels all with better fit/finish and then I'd start seriously considering dropping another 5k into the car.
03-03-2011, 10:10 AM
#34
Team Owner
Funny kinda love you have there.(If I were a dog I wouldn't want you as my master)Anyhow,exactly how much interior"quality" is needed in an *** kickin sports car like a vette?Is yours falling apart around you?Mine isn't.I"m as comfortable as I can be I think.Not referring to you but I gotta laugh at some peoples "needs" for the finest leather,exotic woods and platinum radio *****.No, screw the *****,I should only have to think the station i want to listen to.ITS A FRIKIN CAR !
03-03-2011, 10:19 AM
#35
Le Mans Master
I have no opinion, other than it would be quite expensive to conduct probably. I guess you could set up a poll for those that had recent late model Porsche and Corvette ownership to vote.
It would seem to me that in order to make a fair assessment, it would require being in the environment of each for a while. And even then, it would be a small minority, I suspect.
It would seem to me that in order to make a fair assessment, it would require being in the environment of each for a while. And even then, it would be a small minority, I suspect.
,and the people that want more would be the ones trying to get it for way less,,,,
,,,,what is next,,,the driveline,,,
03-03-2011, 10:24 AM
#37
Melting Slicks
i haven't spent time in the 911 but it seems materials are higher. however i do not like the design of the interior. i DO like the design of the corvette interior. i don't mind some plastic. at the $50k price point, Porsche, BMW and everybody includes seas of plastic...i know i know, $80k for a Z06 and $100k for a ZR1 and you get the same interior, but with the crappiness of GM's last generation design staff, that doesn't surprises me.
my biggest interior gripe is the lack of fit and finish. panels are loose, things rattle, little insulation, etc.
my biggest interior gripe is the lack of fit and finish. panels are loose, things rattle, little insulation, etc.
03-03-2011, 11:23 AM
#38
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My bad. For the uninformed, nearly all of the Cayman S and 911 interior components are identical - as in the same part number.
If you would like to nitpick a significant item, wherein you know there to be a difference, then please elaborate. Otherwise, I will consider you to now be in the informed group.
If you would like to nitpick a significant item, wherein you know there to be a difference, then please elaborate. Otherwise, I will consider you to now be in the informed group.
Last edited by fmarshall; 03-03-2011 at 11:27 AM.
03-03-2011, 03:54 PM
#39
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St. Jude Donor '13
As I've said before-
If you want to see a really cheap looking interior, go spend $150,000,000 for a new Boeing 777 and look in the cockpit. It's full of exposed screw heads, paint that wears off in a matter of weeks, cheap plastic trim that fades and comes loose, carpet that looks like Walmart rejects, etc. Makes a Corvette look like the world's greatest luxery car.
But, just like the Corvette, it's one of the most practical, efficient, and comfortable places I've ever used.
If you want to see a really cheap looking interior, go spend $150,000,000 for a new Boeing 777 and look in the cockpit. It's full of exposed screw heads, paint that wears off in a matter of weeks, cheap plastic trim that fades and comes loose, carpet that looks like Walmart rejects, etc. Makes a Corvette look like the world's greatest luxery car.
But, just like the Corvette, it's one of the most practical, efficient, and comfortable places I've ever used.
03-03-2011, 06:24 PM
#40
Le Mans Master
I used to gripe and complain about the 'vettes interior, and I am still not a fan of the base vette's interior, but the seats in the Z06 seem so much nicer. The seat really was my only complaint. Ergos in the 'vette are great.