Mid engine test mule spotted...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,419
Likes: 200
From: Wilkes-Barre Pa
So many assumptions from a few spy shots.
There have also been rumors about a possible return of the El Camino for a few years now. Or maybe because Holden production is ending in Australia in 2017 the Ute production will move to the US.
There have also been rumors about a possible return of the El Camino for a few years now. Or maybe because Holden production is ending in Australia in 2017 the Ute production will move to the US.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,502
Likes: 3,629
Vet frame and roof, so my guess is motor,chassis, driveline testing for the C-8 ZR-1.
As for the rest of the body, that is still on the design boards, so other make shift body parts are being used to not give the end body design away instead (read get the frame and power plant figured out first, then they can final design and do the needed wind tunnel testing to finalize the body parts in the end.
Bluntly, the c-7 Z06 is already ready at the breaking point of the front engine design (current one de-tuned), and since the new ZR-1 will need to have more power than the current Z06/the C-6 ZR-1, really forcing GM to have to go to mid engine on that model.
As for what will not surprise me, Gm moves to over head adjustable cam motors (dual or quad), while will still allow them to stay around the 6 litter engine with supercharger, but making close to 150HP per liter instead.
As for the rest of the body, that is still on the design boards, so other make shift body parts are being used to not give the end body design away instead (read get the frame and power plant figured out first, then they can final design and do the needed wind tunnel testing to finalize the body parts in the end.
Bluntly, the c-7 Z06 is already ready at the breaking point of the front engine design (current one de-tuned), and since the new ZR-1 will need to have more power than the current Z06/the C-6 ZR-1, really forcing GM to have to go to mid engine on that model.
As for what will not surprise me, Gm moves to over head adjustable cam motors (dual or quad), while will still allow them to stay around the 6 litter engine with supercharger, but making close to 150HP per liter instead.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 79
From: NYC
HP/L means NOTHING. Read that again: NOTHING.
Can people please get over the ricer math...
This is coming from the same guy who, at any moment, will mention that the "ZR1 produces lift at high speeds" without making ANY backup to that claim. He also goes on to say a ZR1 cannot handle Autobahn speeds at 150+mph (as if the Nurburg lap times didn't prove anything). Also, where in Germany are there 150+mph turns? Rhetorical question. The ZR1 is just fine, please stop trolling.
<relevant>
And yes, looks like Vettes are headed the mid-engine route.
</relevant>
Can people please get over the ricer math...
This is coming from the same guy who, at any moment, will mention that the "ZR1 produces lift at high speeds" without making ANY backup to that claim. He also goes on to say a ZR1 cannot handle Autobahn speeds at 150+mph (as if the Nurburg lap times didn't prove anything). Also, where in Germany are there 150+mph turns? Rhetorical question. The ZR1 is just fine, please stop trolling.
<relevant>
And yes, looks like Vettes are headed the mid-engine route.
</relevant>
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,502
Likes: 3,629
HP/L means NOTHING. Read that again: NOTHING.
Can people please get over the ricer math...
This is coming from the same guy who, at any moment, will mention that the "ZR1 produces lift at high speeds" without making ANY backup to that claim. He also goes on to say a ZR1 cannot handle Autobahn speeds at 150+mph (as if the Nurburg lap times didn't prove anything). Also, where in Germany are there 150+mph turns? Rhetorical question. The ZR1 is just fine, please stop trolling.
<relevant>
And yes, looks like Vettes are headed the mid-engine route.
</relevant>
Can people please get over the ricer math...
This is coming from the same guy who, at any moment, will mention that the "ZR1 produces lift at high speeds" without making ANY backup to that claim. He also goes on to say a ZR1 cannot handle Autobahn speeds at 150+mph (as if the Nurburg lap times didn't prove anything). Also, where in Germany are there 150+mph turns? Rhetorical question. The ZR1 is just fine, please stop trolling.
<relevant>
And yes, looks like Vettes are headed the mid-engine route.
</relevant>
(A) 2.059 m²
(cd) 0.32
(cd × A) 0.66
at 200km/h
lift front 39kg
lift rear 14kg
Here are the down force numbers for a 911 GT3
(A) 2.04 m²
(cd) 0.32
(cd × A) 0.66
at 200km/h
downforce front 15kg
downforce rear 19kg
As for the C-7 z07 down force numbers, no one has tested them yet to get an actual number. All that has been said that the Z-07 has the greatest down force numbers of all the vets, but again, all the vets have had lift, so not a hard thing to trump since less lift, still equals more down force than other models.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...wnforce-s.html
Also over head cams is not Ricer math, it's super car motor math, hence N/A 6 litter making 660hp.
Anything else you want to go on a tangent about, before actual doing any research on the topic instead?
Last edited by Dano523; Jan 11, 2015 at 03:26 AM.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 661
Likes: 10
From: Toronto Ontario
Get on board everyone!
The mid engine Zora will be the "Super Car" - that we all want our Corvette to be!
Forget that you may not be able to afford one - cause it will not built for most of us.
This will be just like the 6 cyl auto Mustang whose target market is a secretary - while the twice the price GT is the only we would consider.
$150,000+ will be the target buyer - so look out Porsche & Mercedes!
I picked a bad time to retire to a fixed income...
The mid engine Zora will be the "Super Car" - that we all want our Corvette to be!
Forget that you may not be able to afford one - cause it will not built for most of us.
This will be just like the 6 cyl auto Mustang whose target market is a secretary - while the twice the price GT is the only we would consider.
$150,000+ will be the target buyer - so look out Porsche & Mercedes!
I picked a bad time to retire to a fixed income...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,079
Likes: 1,922
From: DFW, Tejas!
I thought it was kind of funny when the C6 was pronounced OBSOLETE considering that the C7 is IMHO a very evolutionary update. But if the first mid engine vette comes out in 2017 then all those cutting edge C7's will be instantly OBSOLETE just four years into the run.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,079
Likes: 98
From: York PA
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,592
Likes: 187
From: Hudson WI
NCM Sinkhole Donor
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,592
I happen to like the C7 and have some good friends who own one and wouldn't mind owning one myself.
Last edited by R&L's C6; Jan 11, 2015 at 03:17 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,079
Likes: 98
From: York PA
I was referring to the arrogant, condescending, lack of respect for any generation other than a C7 that seems to be prevalent on the C7 side of the forum. It just takes a few to spoil the party....
I happen to like the C7 and have some good friends who own one and wouldn't mind owning one myself.
I happen to like the C7 and have some good friends who own one and wouldn't mind owning one myself.
Ahhhhh....ok, i get the point. I do think the will eventually "mellow".....I suspect that if there had been forums, internet, or even personal computers for that matter.....back when the C3 morphed into the C4....there would have been similar folks who felt the C4 was the "be all, end all " Life keeps on moving and there is nothing more "admamant" that an a first time owner of something totally new!
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 79
From: Houston, Tx
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
Here is the C6 ZR-1 lift numbers at 124.2 MPH,
(A) 2.059 m²
(cd) 0.32
(cd × A) 0.66
at 200km/h
lift front 39kg
lift rear 14kg
Here are the down force numbers for a 911 GT3
(A) 2.04 m²
(cd) 0.32
(cd × A) 0.66
at 200km/h
downforce front 15kg
downforce rear 19kg
As for the C-7 z07 down force numbers, no one has tested them yet to get an actual number. All that has been said that the Z-07 has the greatest down force numbers of all the vets, but again, all the vets have had lift, so not a hard thing to trump since less lift, still equals more down force than other models.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...wnforce-s.html
Also over head cams is not Ricer math, it's super car motor math, hence N/A 6 litter making 660hp.
Anything else you want to go on a tangent about, before actual doing any research on the topic instead?
(A) 2.059 m²
(cd) 0.32
(cd × A) 0.66
at 200km/h
lift front 39kg
lift rear 14kg
Here are the down force numbers for a 911 GT3
(A) 2.04 m²
(cd) 0.32
(cd × A) 0.66
at 200km/h
downforce front 15kg
downforce rear 19kg
As for the C-7 z07 down force numbers, no one has tested them yet to get an actual number. All that has been said that the Z-07 has the greatest down force numbers of all the vets, but again, all the vets have had lift, so not a hard thing to trump since less lift, still equals more down force than other models.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...wnforce-s.html
Also over head cams is not Ricer math, it's super car motor math, hence N/A 6 litter making 660hp.
Anything else you want to go on a tangent about, before actual doing any research on the topic instead?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,502
Likes: 3,629
Looks taller/bigger that is really is, and would tuck into any vet with the tanks moved to the front (no need for a torque tube, so think of crank as center line of torque tube now).
And tucks nicely into this.
Someone standing next to a Enzo to really give you an ideal of how "not tall" the motor block really is.
And tucks nicely into this.
Someone standing next to a Enzo to really give you an ideal of how "not tall" the motor block really is.
Last edited by Dano523; Jan 11, 2015 at 09:10 PM.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 431
Likes: 1
From: Oconomowoc Wisconsin
If it happens....
....I hope they don't call it a Corvette when it comes down to it. I don't even want that to be called a model of Corvette...like the ME Corvette Stingray.
Call it something else...like Fiero...
All kidding aside I have never been in a mid engine really fast sports car but what is it like inside driving it from a noise and odor/smell standpoint? The engine is right in there in the driving compartment with you does technology take care of those things?
Call it something else...like Fiero...
All kidding aside I have never been in a mid engine really fast sports car but what is it like inside driving it from a noise and odor/smell standpoint? The engine is right in there in the driving compartment with you does technology take care of those things?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 936
Likes: 36
From: SWFL 🇺🇸
So much whineassing from Vette owners who basically do nothing more than drive to McDonald's for Sunday morning breakfast. The Corvette is supposed to be a performance car and a mid engine, AWD, dual clutch, paddle-shifting supercar for the masses is where it's going. Otherwise, if the only ambition is to stay the same except to add enough HP to beat a HellCat on paper then that's pathetic. The conceptual rendering is fantastic and if the C8 is anywhere close to it, sign me up.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,446
Likes: 314
From: Tarpon Springs FL
FL Events Coordinator
You need to get out more....the Ferrari F430 corners like it is on rails....it is NOT AWD.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,514
Likes: 235
From: Currently somewhere in IL,IN,KY,TN,MO,AR,MS,AL, or FL
The purpose of putting the engine in the middle (and making the cabin cramped) was to balance the weight front to rear. GM already did that when they moved the transmission to the rear in the C5. Putting them back together in the middle where the driver sits now is silly. There are a lot of things that could be done to really make a high performance C8. Imagine a 200hp electric motor mounted at each wheel location? The C6 has more than 200hp per driven tire and existing tire tech can handle that. 800 usable hp from off the shelf parts still having the same 50/50 weight balance of the C6. And the passenger cabin could be even larger. Mid-engine is 50 years behind the times. Ever driven a Fiero?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,592
So much whineassing from Vette owners who basically do nothing more than drive to McDonald's for Sunday morning breakfast. The Corvette is supposed to be a performance car and a mid engine, AWD, dual clutch, paddle-shifting supercar for the masses is where it's going. Otherwise, if the only ambition is to stay the same except to add enough HP to beat a HellCat on paper then that's pathetic. The conceptual rendering is fantastic and if the C8 is anywhere close to it, sign me up.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 661
Likes: 10
From: Toronto Ontario
The purpose of putting the engine in the middle (and making the cabin cramped) was to balance the weight front to rear. GM already did that when they moved the transmission to the rear in the C5. Putting them back together in the middle where the driver sits now is silly. There are a lot of things that could be done to really make a high performance C8. Imagine a 200hp electric motor mounted at each wheel location? The C6 has more than 200hp per driven tire and existing tire tech can handle that. 800 usable hp from off the shelf parts still having the same 50/50 weight balance of the C6. And the passenger cabin could be even larger. Mid-engine is 50 years behind the times. Ever driven a Fiero?Too bad GM didn't get the mid engine business right in the Fiero...but it was a good test platform.
Just like the Corvair was a test platform for independant rear suspension.
IRS was in Corvair right from the start in 1960 - but this technology only 1st appeared in Corvettes from 1963.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,592
Likes: 187
From: Hudson WI
NCM Sinkhole Donor
I will believe a midengine Corvette when I see it at the dealer. 40+ years of talk...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,252
Likes: 113
From: Texas
Of course, 'faster' is relative. I doubt anybody on the street would NEED to corner faster than a 430 could (or had the reactions of bat which would be needed on street), but the theory is there.