Bwright

In the larger picture of sports cars the Shelby GT500 means little to the Corvette program.

First, let's start with the engine. The Corvette is designed in large part to be eligible for worldwide endurance racing. As such, a supercharger is a non-starter. Superchargers are an expedient way for those with no aspirations for road racing to quickly and cheaply make power. If you look at the Le Mans rules you will see that there is a strict 4-liter limit for any supercharged production-based engine. Not that the limit is particularly relevant since superchargers suffer significant power losses when subjected to prolonged heat as would happen in an endurance race. That's why no supercharged engines are currently running at Le Mans.

As an aside, it is disgraceful in the extreme that Ford rushed the otherwise stunning GT supercar into production when they knew full well that the supercharged engine's very nature meant that the car would never be able to return to the venue that made it famous in the first place. The expediency of rushing the GT into production, complete with little headlights that say "100" to celebrate Ford's centennial trumped both common sense and historical fidelity. I love looking at the GT but I also realize it is the surest sign that Ford does not get it and will likely be looking the other way when Chapter 11 drills them right between the eyes. Judged by their gross mishandling of the GT's rebirth, they will have earned it.

In any event, besides the GT500's engine there is the crude live rear-axle. Automobile Magazine's June 2005 piece on the GT500 had a specific side article which broke out in detail the significant weight/performance drawbacks of this suspension setup.

Finally, if you calculate the power-to-weight ratio of the heavy iron block Ford you will see that at best it will achieve parity with the base Vette.

To truly be in the Vette's league Ford would have to spend the time and money designing a naturally aspirated engine and a sophisticated independent rear suspension. This would significantly elevate the Shelby's cost. Then it would need to lose 680 lbs. of weight. Some of the weight loss should come from making the car a lot smaller than it is. Think the dimensions of a 911. In Corvette C6 by Phil Berg, Dave Hill notes that it cost the C6 program approximately $5 x 30K cars to save a single pound of weight. So a quarter ton pared from the GT500 should cost the Ford guys a cool $75mm which, when translated into a commensurate price increase in the Shelby's cost for production run, should sober the potential buyer group right up. Finally, re-crash certifying this new body with precious few parts shared with the standard Ford Mustang would surely make Ford's accountants faint.

I won't even run the $25K an hour wind tunnel costs (the Vette spent 500 hours in the tunnel) to tune the GT500 to the Vette's aerodynamic standards by anyone.

But that's what it would take to come up with a Ford GT500 that has the dimensions, aerodynamics, power-to-weight ratio, engine and suspension to take the fight to the Vette on the road and in international competition which has become the Vette's playground and design locus.

Sorry but the current GT500 is largely an engine and a complex name backed up by a power-to-weight ratio that should just about approximate that of the far better rounded base Vette. It fools only those whose understanding of sports cars extends only to counting horsepower.

LS WON

Speed isn't the whole picture. Lots of people of all ages across the board will stop and stare at a C-6 and comment on how nice and beautiful it is-it has class. I don't see people doing that with Mustangs. Mustangs would seem more for the teenager types like I see in Saleen's and Rosh. Lets face it also the Corvette will be a much more comfortable car to drive and the handling is superior to the GT-500. A 5.0 with aftermarket supercharger and modified intake manifold can be just as fast too so speed contests don't make a car as there are so much other criteria to consider.
Don't get me wrong I will be checking out those GT-500's for purchase when they come out but I am afraid that the $40,000 mark will be raised up by dealers especially since this is going to be a limited production Mustang. Another good thing about this GT-500 at least now they are making things that function rather than just for looks.

LS WON

One is a high performance world sportcar the Shelby is a muscle/pony car. They are both great in their on classes...
Note too if you want to bring speed into this equation the Corvete is more aerodynamic so it will have a higher top end speed and will handle much better than the Shelby.

427Z0SX

Power is very nice, but man do I hate the weight. You can hide the porkiness driving in a straight line, but around corners and in braking, there is no denying the 3850 lbs. That horse is overweight! That, and also I hate the retro looks. So if the Z is priced too high I'll just wait for next year, but ain't gonna go for the stang.

blandcastle

Also what everyone needs to realize is the mustang will not be competetive with the base c6. When ford talks hp, you can divide by about 1/5 to get the real hp. So by the time they get it out, it will be at the wheels about 375 on the dyno. Ford's "385hp" mustang raced me in my 02 ss... Not even close. I took him off the line and after I shifted into second (automatic) I was gone. And all that extra weight on the mustang...ouch! I can't wait for my new Z.

Scissors

Weight

e55amg

I look at it as a C6 Z06 or a GT500 and a C5 Z06...

resmith23

I don't see comparing the three cars, since they are of different classes. The standard C6 is a great sports car for most of us; with great sports car feel and performance. The C6-Z06 carries this to the edge of whats possible for a street car, but this car is for the vette owner that trully indends to race it. The GT-500 is the ultimate pony car; the 4 seats makes it feasible for more owners; with its solid rear axil its the car to buy for weekend runs at the drag strip.
One other thing, GM better take notice the mustang is out there selling like hot cakes. I love my C6 vette, but have to really admire what Ford has done with the mustang. Of course the vette will never compete with the mustang in a most important category; the number of sales. Dear GM: you have built some fabulous cars in the past. Resurrect the passion some of these icons and put it into a modern car like the 2005 mustang and you too will enjoy great success. One more thing the new GTO is just too plain to look at. Classic GTOs were some of the most beautiful cars ever, but this one doesn't make it in that department. Take the wonderfull mechanicals of that car and wrap it in a 4 seater body that brings back the passion and sell it for the same price.

Crushinator

Are you talking about the '01 Cobra R? If so, I think he was toying with you. That car would easily beat a stock SS Camaro.

GN1270

It will take some ZO6 sales away for sure. Alot of the new potential ZO6 owners will want power,and exclusivity. Now do they need Supercar handeling for the driving they will do and would they prefer 2 more seats? Is there a drop top Shelby coming as well?

6speedC6

God you people feel so threatened!!!! Chill it's AMERICAN we should celebrate cars as these not compare or bash. Keeps America on top in the performance market not the imports!!!

dbvettez06

Oh geee a 3800+ pound Mustang with a live rear axel, give me a break!!! Try pushing that fat *** around a corner

6speedC6

dbvettez06

Have you driven a current blown Mustang, i have they handle like a pig!!! Drive one and then you take the BS tag away

Mopar Jimmy

This is a NO BRAINER. The new 06 Z06, even if priced at $72.5 (sticker), which is my educated guess, is by FAR THE BEST VALUE of all the SUPERCARS, as this car will HUMILATE just about any other SUPERCAR that cost 2 to 3 times its price!!!!!!!!! INCREDIBLE CAR and always the best value=06 Z06

Crushinator

I hope you guys don't think I started this thread to compare the GT500 with the Z06. I personally don't think there's any comparison even if the Z is $30K more. But the GT definitely has a cool factor that may be enough to persuade some buyers of base C6 Corvette's to rethink their purchase. No it doesn't have that sports car appeal that we all love, but it will have some serious power with potential to give anything a run for it's money. I just love serious car talk and it appears to me that Ford has done right by building this car.

etekberg

I hear a lot of comparisons that come into play racing at a track.

I have an 02 Z with 40k miles that I purchased new.
Number of times I've been to any kind of race track = 0.
Number of times I've even had a small race contest on the street = very few.

I drive fast on the street and love acceleration (both forward and lateral). I wish I was one of those people who do race on weekends, but I know that costs money and I am cheeeaaap

I want a nice, easy to drive, fun to drive, semi exclusive car that's faster than all but a few cars on the street. I use to say I cared about the race track stuff, but the truth is it doesn't matter.

GT500 would seem to fit the bill. Sure I'd rather have a Z, but not at anything even near twice the price. Truth be told, I'd rather have a 911, but not at 1.5 times the price of my Z either.

I would think that the majority of buyers are like me and never go to the track. So again I say the GT500 market overlaps with the corvette and even the Z06 substantially. Of course, I could be wrong.

blandcastle

I am talking about the 03 or 04 385 hp mustang. I would welcome the 01 R to try my car as well. I have run side by side with a viper and new c5's. I beat him( 03 or 04 385hp mustang) 3 times in a row. My car has 335 stock hp. This is my friend who went out to get that car specifically to beat my car. HE has since gotten rid of it.And I'll tell you something else. My son in his 98 trans am almost beat him. Ford's advertised hp is ALOT less than actual. Don't believe me? Watch Horsepower Tv sometime and see what the ford's are supposed to have and what they dyno at. HUGE difference. The LS1's midrange is the difference maker. Now I am waiting on my new Z. I suppose you will tell me next that the new ford mustang will beat my new Z too.

Crushinator

I saw your post before you edited it...and I had an '01 WS6 Trans Am so I do happen to know sh t about what I'm talking about. I'm not gonna even comment about you running side by side with a Viper. That's just stupid. I also had a Viper so I do know sh t about them too. Let me guess, your 335 horsepower Camaro will run side by side with my Z06? If you can run with a Viper, you can run with me...I think not. I'm not busting on F-Body's. I hapen to like them quite a bit, but be real here. You're not talking to your son's friends here. Of course the Mustang won't run with the new Z06. Even if it would I'd still be buying one too. Don't come here trying to make me look like I fool, it won't work.

Crushinator

blandecastle, before this gets out of hand, let's just agree that when we both own an '06 Z06 that we will have the best car money can buy under $100K and no Mustang or Camaro or Viper in the world is gonna matter.