[Z06] Timing Tech, LS7
09-03-2012, 09:19 PM
#61
Melting Slicks
Good post Tony; 2 gallons of E85 along with 93 Octane will raise the Octane about 2 points.
It carries its own O2 as well which will lean out WOT (open loop) and allow full timing in most cases. Along with the cooler plugs you should be able to kiss KR goodbye.
Our Super Bee MF103 with the Beehive will keep IATs close to ambient and providing IAT parity when moving.
Our MF107R, on the other hand, will cause severe KR without remapping the MAF transfer curve.
Forum members love this stuff, and so do I.
Jim Hall
It carries its own O2 as well which will lean out WOT (open loop) and allow full timing in most cases. Along with the cooler plugs you should be able to kiss KR goodbye.
Our Super Bee MF103 with the Beehive will keep IATs close to ambient and providing IAT parity when moving.
Our MF107R, on the other hand, will cause severe KR without remapping the MAF transfer curve.
Forum members love this stuff, and so do I.
Jim Hall
09-03-2012, 09:55 PM
#62
Sr.Random input generator
I don't understand how you can mix-up E85 with regular fuel in arbitrary amounts to be honest. As we all know, the energy density of ethanol is considerably lower, so you need more of it to do the same burn (HP). Hence, even though you can mix it up with E10 93 octane pump fuel to derive a higher octane fuel, you would need to change the fuel tables to match this proportional change or else you would have the same volume of fuel as what would normally be injected with the E10 fuel, but since it has less fuel density, you'd essentially run VERY LEAN! Am I missing out something?
09-04-2012, 10:42 AM
#63
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
The link you supplied for the NGK website says that the TR6IX plug is the stock replacement plug for the LS7, so, did NGK purposely make the plug colder than OEM?
Looking at the insulator, it is clean, but either the photo sucks or it appears that there is a bit of excess carbon already building on the shell around the center electrode and also on the ground electrode as well as the coloration of the ground electrode.
If this knock was something that recently happened or 'developed' as you said, perhaps there could be excessive carbon build up in the cylinder causing the knock that a top end service could correct? If the tune isn't to blame, and the knock just started, than maybe we are looking at another problem and the colder plug is just a crutch.
At 40K miles the OEM plug still looks good other than the fuzzy, any thought to cleaning them and rerunning the test after a top end service, maybe with some GM Top End Cleaner or SeaFoam?
BTW, GM recommends no anti-seize, but if you must, to use a nickel based compound.
Thoughts...?
Looking at the insulator, it is clean, but either the photo sucks or it appears that there is a bit of excess carbon already building on the shell around the center electrode and also on the ground electrode as well as the coloration of the ground electrode.
If this knock was something that recently happened or 'developed' as you said, perhaps there could be excessive carbon build up in the cylinder causing the knock that a top end service could correct? If the tune isn't to blame, and the knock just started, than maybe we are looking at another problem and the colder plug is just a crutch.
At 40K miles the OEM plug still looks good other than the fuzzy, any thought to cleaning them and rerunning the test after a top end service, maybe with some GM Top End Cleaner or SeaFoam?
BTW, GM recommends no anti-seize, but if you must, to use a nickel based compound.
Thoughts...?
Yes NGK does list the TR6 as a replacement for the car. The tip design is a bit different and there is less showing from the base of the plug. Of course without actually doing some more testing I am not sure if it is 100% stock heat range, or what they suggest for the car.
Those plugs were changed in the car about 10k miles ago. While the car does have 40+k on it right now the stock plugs have been replaced with OEM plugs due to the knock issue. Again trying to figure where it was coming from.
A bore-a-scope was used, and there was no appearance of heavy carbon deposits. However it isn't a track car so it would see the same use as most any other customer car. I would not expect heavy build up deposits at this time.
09-04-2012, 08:21 PM
#65
Good post Tony; 2 gallons of E85 along with 93 Octane will raise the Octane about 2 points.
It carries its own O2 as well which will lean out WOT (open loop) and allow full timing in most cases. Along with the cooler plugs you should be able to kiss KR goodbye.
Our Super Bee MF103 with the Beehive will keep IATs close to ambient and providing IAT parity when moving.
Our MF107R, on the other hand, will cause severe KR without remapping the MAF transfer curve.
Forum members love this stuff, and so do I.
Jim Hall
It carries its own O2 as well which will lean out WOT (open loop) and allow full timing in most cases. Along with the cooler plugs you should be able to kiss KR goodbye.
Our Super Bee MF103 with the Beehive will keep IATs close to ambient and providing IAT parity when moving.
Our MF107R, on the other hand, will cause severe KR without remapping the MAF transfer curve.
Forum members love this stuff, and so do I.
Jim Hall
09-05-2012, 10:27 PM
#66
Melting Slicks
What gap should you use with the TR6iX plug? And would this be a good plug, for a cammed car, with exhaust, headers, And air filter?
09-06-2012, 11:00 AM
#67
Team Owner
09-06-2012, 11:44 AM
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
See above on the gap, I checked them and they are right at 0.040 out of the box, which is the way I left them.
Most of the time a 6 heat range with the NGK would be correct. Again the best would be to chat with your tuner and cam designer. Most of our cam kits would use as TR6 plug.
Most of the time a 6 heat range with the NGK would be correct. Again the best would be to chat with your tuner and cam designer. Most of our cam kits would use as TR6 plug.
09-06-2012, 11:47 AM
#70
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
It isn't going to fowl out a plug sitting in the garage. If it just puts around a car show lot or barely sees RPMs above 2500-3000 RPM I wouldn't worry about it so much.
If your weekend drives 5 times a year are at VIR, Sebring, and Laguna...I would go with the TR6.
09-06-2012, 11:56 AM
#71
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Depends on how it is driven....
It isn't going to fowl out a plug sitting in the garage. If it just puts around a car show lot or barely sees RPMs above 2500-3000 RPM I wouldn't worry about it so much.
If your weekend drives 5 times a year are at VIR, Sebring, and Laguna...I would go with the TR6.
It isn't going to fowl out a plug sitting in the garage. If it just puts around a car show lot or barely sees RPMs above 2500-3000 RPM I wouldn't worry about it so much.
If your weekend drives 5 times a year are at VIR, Sebring, and Laguna...I would go with the TR6.
Occassional simulated mexican virtual reality romps.
09-06-2012, 12:24 PM
#72
Race Director
I guess you never heard of the Porsche 917-30 of the early 1970's. The spark plugs were $30 then and it was a flat-12 with 2 plugs per cylinder! Yes, it was a race engine, but insane even then ($720 for plug change, parts only).
09-06-2012, 02:22 PM
#73
Sr.Random input generator
See above on the gap, I checked them and they are right at 0.040 out of the box, which is the way I left them.
Most of the time a 6 heat range with the NGK would be correct. Again the best would be to chat with your tuner and cam designer. Most of our cam kits would use as TR6 plug.
Most of the time a 6 heat range with the NGK would be correct. Again the best would be to chat with your tuner and cam designer. Most of our cam kits would use as TR6 plug.
09-06-2012, 03:48 PM
#74
Great thread 
The 91 E10 fuel we have here in Phoeix definetly cost me some power at the track (and dyno) on my stock car (with MF103 CAI).
The amount of timing pulled, and power loss, with minor KR (2 degrees) can cost you upwards of 7+ RWHP/RWTQ on a dyno pull....probably more when you are on the drag strip or road course. I don't look for max power output when doing normal street driving, but I do stick to using top tier fuels,, specifically, Shell V Power for me. When at the drag strip, I mix approximately 50/50 pump with Sunoco GT260 +, to eliviate any chance of KR (and subsequent power loss) due to poor fuel octane.
The proof is in the pudding, where my car recently pulled 124+ MPH trap speeds during a trip to a local drag race event where ambient temps were 95+ and DA's were above 4660 feet ASL !!!!!!
I did an extensive thread last year showing the impact of fuel octane, showing both dyno numbers AND HP Tuner Pro logs performed during the pulls. I backed that information up by running the car at the drag strip, with excellent results.
Oh, and did I mention my car has over 65K miles on it ? I have over a dozen HPDE's on her.....maybe 150-200 drag race passes.
Pulled the original plugs this afternoon to take a look-see's ........
I was planning on replacing the plugs this year (as preventative maintenenace), given that our track season is coming in the next couple months.
FYI.... O'Reilly Auto Parts price matched the online pricing from the Sears site for the NGK TR6iX's. Plugs came out to 5.46/each, 43.68 for 8 plugs, plus tax
The 91 E10 fuel we have here in Phoeix definetly cost me some power at the track (and dyno) on my stock car (with MF103 CAI).
The amount of timing pulled, and power loss, with minor KR (2 degrees) can cost you upwards of 7+ RWHP/RWTQ on a dyno pull....probably more when you are on the drag strip or road course. I don't look for max power output when doing normal street driving, but I do stick to using top tier fuels,, specifically, Shell V Power for me. When at the drag strip, I mix approximately 50/50 pump with Sunoco GT260 +, to eliviate any chance of KR (and subsequent power loss) due to poor fuel octane.
The proof is in the pudding, where my car recently pulled 124+ MPH trap speeds during a trip to a local drag race event where ambient temps were 95+ and DA's were above 4660 feet ASL !!!!!!
I did an extensive thread last year showing the impact of fuel octane, showing both dyno numbers AND HP Tuner Pro logs performed during the pulls. I backed that information up by running the car at the drag strip, with excellent results.
Oh, and did I mention my car has over 65K miles on it ? I have over a dozen HPDE's on her.....maybe 150-200 drag race passes.
Pulled the original plugs this afternoon to take a look-see's ........
I was planning on replacing the plugs this year (as preventative maintenenace), given that our track season is coming in the next couple months.
FYI.... O'Reilly Auto Parts price matched the online pricing from the Sears site for the NGK TR6iX's. Plugs came out to 5.46/each, 43.68 for 8 plugs, plus tax
08-01-2013, 03:07 AM
#79
Team Owner
Been running TR6s in every LSx I have owned and in my families LSx's. My tuner says you can also get more timing out of them, so I'll take that which means more opportunity for HP. Had mine in my Z06 since about 2weeks after I bought the car even before I tuned it
Plus $16 for plugs you spend 3 times that on a fill up
Plus $16 for plugs you spend 3 times that on a fill up
But change those bad boys before 40k they don't last.
I change mine every 25k because they are ncheap about it always feels better with fresh plugs. Use them at the pre gap from the box
@ .039 gap.
08-02-2013, 02:15 AM
#80
Drifting
