I have yet to see a credible tuner try maxing the E-Force.

I asked my tuner about meth & he said it was trying to **** on a forest fire. In other words, not needed, not helpful, waste of money.

Mine starting knocking at 9 lbs on pump fuel, so the tune was backed off a bit. The stock LS2/LS3 motors are pretty high compression for FI, so I'd rather take a little timing out of the tune then have to run Torco, race fuel, or meth.

 

I think the biggest thing this kit could benefit from is a larger heat exchanger up front for the C6. The one that ships with the kit is ok for the kit "as shipped" but the more power you build the more heat you make the more cooling you need to dissipate the heat. If you are not moving enough air across that heat exchanger the car is just going to get progressively hotter and hotter and it becomes a losing battle. The *ustang guys have been chasing better cooling for a while. The *ustang cooler in the picture below comes with a pair of 10" SPAL fans. Forced air would help immensely because we are at the mercy of whatever airflow is coming thru the nose. When you slow down, so does the airflow. Force air fans would help a lot. It is a rare dyno room that carries a fan that replicates what the car sees on the road in terms of airflow thru the nose. Packaging this in the nose of the C6 is a challenge but I'd be the first to pick one up if someone would release a quality fan-forced heat exchanger for the car. There is room up there...just look at the size of the centri air-to-air units. They stuff huge intercoolers up there.



I agree with TJWong with respect to flow limits when pushing the Edelbrock beyond what is was designed for. The chart I posted above clearly shows the restriction that starts to show it's face above 5500rpm. It's the compromise that comes with packaging everything under the stock hood. Edelbrock would counter that the E-Force was not designed for the "all out" build and would be quick to point out the torque advantage of the 12" runners which shows up earlier in that same graph. It is interesting to see that even with the gradual boost creep, the Edelbrock still produces within about 20hp of the Magnacharger (and those are flywheel numbers, not rwhp).


Jason you need to get a fuel pressure gauge on that car and see what numbers it is producing when you see the 100% injector duty cycle. You may need a higher capacity fuel pump....and injectors

 

I was just going to stay quiet and watch the fireworks.....

Welcome to PD blower land on a corvette where there is ZERO room and alot of heat, enjoy the ride.

And as far as the comment I read about injecting meth post rotor on this blower, ive never seen what the lower manifold looks like on this system dissasembled, but I will tell you its not as easy as it sounds. And if you dont do it right, your going to have SERIOUS issues. Last think you want is water/meth pooling in the intake. Also, you DO NOT want to run pure methanol, run a 50/50 mix, the water will help with the cooling.

Just my two cents....

 

Your tuner is a asshat if he told you meth is a waste of money, sorry to say it. It will drop the IAT's regardless of spraying pre or post rotor as well as increase your octane level to work as a buffer if you would happen to have a **** tank of gas as long as the tune isnt meth dependent.

Can you post a screen shot of the high octane spark table of your tune?

 

Certainly if there is room to stuff this air-to-air monster up in the nose there is room for a larger air-to-water heat exchanger than the either Magnacharger or Edelbrock offer!...just need someone to build it...I've made contact with the right company and am working on that right now! More to follow.



Camaro guys have tapped the lid at the back on the Edelbrock and have a spray bar setup post-rotors. Camaro bunch seem to be a bit more willing to experiment than Vette owners are.

 

We actually have already done this with a kenne bell C5 my friend owns. Large heat exchanger with fans. Didnt really make much of a difference. But have at it, possibly you will have better results.

 

I don't think psi has as much to do with it as total air flow. With 8psi on a totally stock motor, I'd bet the EForce would be fine or a little better. 8psi on an LS3 (or LS2 with ported heads) with cam and free flowing exhaust might show some restriction past 4000 rpm.

As far as IAT's, I can only tell you what mine does. I have no experience with the EForce. I've had timing pulled on mine at the strip and that's about it. Sitting in line in hot weather, doing a burnout, then the quarter is a sure fire receipe for high IAT's. Mine were about 70 over ambient and timing was pulled. Still ran over 130mph with little traction in the first two gears. Couldn't go WOT 'till third gear and still had some slip in third.

Running on the street is a whole nother story. As long as there's air over the h/e, I've had no IAT issues. 95 degree day with back to back high speed runs netted IAT's about 35 over ambient and no timing pulled. Recovered to 12 over ambient quickly. Coolant temps rarely get over 185 and I'm still on the stock radiator. I've had my Maggie for two years and have been through two SE Texas summers with no heat issues. Neither intake air, coolant, nor oil tems have hampered the fun.

 

50/50 is definetly the way to go. The main reason is, while meth constitutes a fuel, its the water that does the cooling and acts as to retard detonation. Water has to absorb x amount of heat energy to change states from a liquid to a gas. This is known as latent heat properties of a substance. Water absorbs 3x the heat energy than methanol so it is an effective retardant for detonation.

The only bad thing about spraying meth/water is getting even distribution into the engine via the intake manifold. The LS series intake manifolds were never designed to be a wet flow manifold so spraying into the inlet won't gurantee even distribution into each cylinder. Spraying into the inlet of a edelbrock unit or a maggie kit isn't always the best either. Magnusson says its a no no because for fear of damaging the abradable coating on the rotors. I am not sure what if any recommendations were every issued by Edelbrock concerning methanol injection. The best way was pictured in a previous post where a set of spray bars are mounted in the intake plenum. It is something I am contemplating for my TVS build but for the time being I am going to try it the way it is for now. LPE and 21st Century has completed a couple similar builds and didn't use any kind of chemical intercooling with good results.

As far as adding fans to the heat exchanger, IMHO they may work at slow speeds but I think that they would become a air flow restriction at higher speeds. I doubt that those small Spal fans can induce nearly the flow and velocity of air that across the heat exchanger that the car will produce at 60+ MPH of road speed.

 

You don't need those at 60mph. Temps rise when airflow goes down. The fans freewheel and let the new larger heat exchanger do it's job at speed.The fans are installed on the back side (pullers in that Mustang application) and switch on/off based on coolant temps...that same concept works pretty well for the radiator right?

 

That should be the way they work. I wonder how an enlarged Maggie or Edelbrock unit would work with a dual radiator fan set up in a C6. The fans would turn on at lower speeds and hopefully induce enough air across the heat exchanger to maintain intercooler efficiency. I don't think there is enough room in a C6 set up to add additional fans behind a heat exchanger. I wonder what happened to the AC system heat exchanger system that the mustang guys are using. Wasn't someone with a C6 going that way?

 

Do you have any pictures where they taped the lid?

 

Julio with Alky controll lives 10 miles from me. I spoke with him about puting spray post rotors. He said he does not know much about E-Force but he is looking into it. Any pictures that can be found on this would be helpfull.

 

Check with this guy.... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...69&postcount=5

 

England Green uses Julio's kits and they just finished up an Eforce with meth. Give them a shout and see what they did and recommend.

 

Im assuming they will recommend you buy a different blower...

Wait, thats me....

 

They will recommend that exactly as well. I just left there a couple hours ago and we were talking about it.

 

Steve Johnson with Inductions Systems is a customer of mine. I think I will ask him about this. He is a NOS guy but I would think its the same principal. I just may have him hook up a 75 shot ):

 

Would that be a dry shot? Eforce+spray is going to hit like a freight train when you mash the gas.

 

I would agree, i wouldnt try that on a stock bottom end......

 

I E-mailed Steve today to see what he thinks. We may only od a 50 shot. I just want to be one of the first in the 9s with E-Force