Well, I put the 2.75 pulley on the other day. Not quite what I was hoping for BUT. The Fast 65lb injectors were @ 100% duty cycle we lost 20hp at the top but gained around 30 ft lbs tq down low. The Iat temp were close to 190 with the alky . So I am selling the Fast 65 and 52 lb injectors that came with the e-force $300 ea.

The good thing was, no belt slip. Not sure if larger injectors will help but we will give it a try. Is it possible the E-Force just does not work well with more than 10lbs of boost?

 

I'm going FI very soon and from everything I have read everyong really likes the efoce for what it is from Edlebrock. The issue comes when you want more HP out of the unit. Doesn't take added boost well. It just doesn't have the ability to really grow. I will wait for others to chime in but this is what I've concluded with all I have researched. It's why I'm going with a ECS centri unit.

 

How come your tuner did not up the alky? That would of helped with the IAT and the duty cycle on the injectors. Granted being dependant on the meth, is not the safest thing to do. But, it would of got you lower IATs and kept the fuel trims in line for the time being.

 

Do you still have the chiller setup?
As the weather is getting hotter I can see that the IAT's will be the major problem I feared this summer. I was hoping that chiller setup might be one posible solution.

 

If you don't already have a set of bigger injectors I have a set I can lend you to try if you want. They are the 52# ones out of the kit resized by FIC to approx 74# @58 PSI. you are wlecome to use them and see if they work out.
Mike

 

Jason,

Modding is more than just swapping pulleys. My thoughts....

If you allowed the car to get to 190 IAT from numerous pulls on the dyno you were wasting your time. At 190, the car is pulling 6 degrees of timing. Describe the fan you were using at the dyno shop please and please don't tell me it was one of those 4' Sam's Club fans. Was your tuner present at this dyno event? Any car on a dyno will heat soak if you lack adequate airflow. If you were at 190 you had the entire setup hot and should have let it idle with the dyno fan blowing to cool things back down. If you simply shut it down to cool it off it would take hours.

Methanol injection - You were sold a bill of goods on the effectiveness of injecting methanol pre-rotors. You gain very little by injecting prior to the air being compressed/heated. There needs to be a spray bar post-rotors for it to be effective

Injector size - Are you observing fuel pressure at the same time you see the 100% duty cycle? I'd begin to question the Z06 fuel pump's ability to keep up. If you are not seeing 58psi then bigger injectors will not help. Lean + 12psi + hot = VERY BAD

Since you have now stepped down to the smallest pulley available for the Edelbrock you should expect to have to upgrade things. You are running at nearly double the boost the kit was sized for but have done nothing to improve the heat exchanger. Whatever happened to that Killer Chiller thing you were experimenting with?
You should find someone to build you a bigger heat exchanger up front if you want to run 12psi.

 

He did, we put it all the way up and added a second nossel

 

We took the chiller off for some warranty work. We have not put it back on yet. I agree it would of helped

 

One thing you may or may not be aware of. Where did you measure the boost pressure at? If you take the measurement on top of the plenum ie; where the bypass valve vacuum line is. I have found that from 5500 RPM and up I will see boost creeping up and with a smaller pulley boost creep will be even more evident. I have spoken with Edelbrocks engineers about this and what they have told me was that their runner efficiency isn't very good up past 5500, in other words their runners can't efficiently pass all the air that the blower is pumping out into the engine, or in easier words they become resrtictive. On their 599hp upgraded kits I have seen as much as 3 psi of boost creep when measured at the bypass valve port.

I have never seen this issue with the Maggie kits, but they do not have any runners in their plenums. The blower is pumping into a large box directly under the blower without any or very little restriction before entering the intake runners of the cylinder heads.

 

If I understand what you're saying is that the boost your reading isn't the boost the engine is actually receiving unless it's measured at the right place? If Edlebrock is saying X amount of boost can't be jammed through the runners at high RPM then you're sort of wasting your time by spinning the rotors faster? Sort of like running in place...

Sounds like the system was engineered to do certain things at certain rotor speeds. Those things it does very well imo but beyond that you are simply begging for problems. I keep saying if someone wants BIG power there are much better systems then E-Force out there. Seems counterproductive and expensive to re-engineer a system that was designed for certain power levels??

 

Great points!!!

 

TJ is right on the money. Look at the boost curves of the higher hp builds of Maggies vs EForces (check the boost "curve" on Vettethret's build). Boost gets to max on the Maggie around 3K rpm and holds to red line. Try to push that same amound of air through an EForce and it gets to similar boost at 3K and starts creeping up after that. That extra boost after 3000 rpm isn't doing anything but heating up the air. On a mild build, you don't see that. Pulley down and it shows up.

 

So in affect those long runners are self limiting on boost to some extent? Rather pointless to exceed what they can introduce into the cylinders? Bottom line if you are looking for 12+ psi (big power) you really should be using something else besides E-Force for your build.....

My goals were never for 600+ so I'm very satisfied with my E-Force but those with deep pockets and higher goals should carefully consider when picking their SC system....

 

Here is a dyno sheet from a customers E Force C6:



You can see that the boost averages 5.5 to 6 from the get go, then dips a bit at 5200 and starts creeping up. I have another somewhere but can't remember the guys name which shows up even better. But with this dyno sheet you get the idea.

Here is another from a 2010 Camaro, this is much more drastic and you can clearly see this phenomenon.

 

So say, under 8 psi...would you say that the Maggie or the Eforce would be better (all things being equal) for "lower" IAT's? I ask because I have to deal with Memphis heat. I had the Eforce and had "some" iat issues...would the Maggie be better due to the sheer design of the kit? Thanks, Scott

 

FYI...back-to-back on an LS9

 

Hmm so the E-force can't achieve700+ rwhp either? Interesting.

 

When built properly for that target HP goal...

It's a Camaro in this dyno but still an LS3 with an Edelbrock on a 2.75" pulley...

 

That's are some very nice curves and numbers.

 

Ken,

You are so right. As always. You have given me a lot to think about.