High Elevation?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 826
Likes: 12
From: Phoenix, AZ
High Elevation?
Ijust wanted to get everyones opinions. I have basically have a stock 98 C5 with the A&A kit and a Billy boat exhaust. Car makes 500 RWHP at 1000'. I am at 6000' and I am wonder how much of a power loss there is. The tunner suggested that the higher elevation should provide colder air, however there is such a loss in oxygen that I must be losing a decent amount of power. I lost 100 HP on my 500 HP Camaro at this elevation versus sea level. I hear people talking about traction issues. I have 295 35 18 tires and have not had any traction issues.
Any thoughts or advise on how to compensate for the elevation?
Thank you,
Mark G.
Any thoughts or advise on how to compensate for the elevation?
Thank you,
Mark G.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 826
Likes: 12
From: Phoenix, AZ
Do you have to have the car retuned if you change the pulley?
Mark G.
Platinum Supporting Vendor
Joined: Jul 2011
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As Unreal said you'll need a smaller pulley and retune to compensate for the elevation.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 826
Likes: 12
From: Phoenix, AZ
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
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From: Gilbert AZ
Where are you? There are a lot of good tuners around.
If you pulley down then go to lower elevation you could be overboosting. So either choose to lose the power or pulley down but then don't floor it or mess with it at sealevel.
If you pulley down then go to lower elevation you could be overboosting. So either choose to lose the power or pulley down but then don't floor it or mess with it at sealevel.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 826
Likes: 12
From: Phoenix, AZ
Thanks, that was what I was also considering and was going to be my next question. I want to join a car club in Tucson or Phoenix. So if I travel to the lower elevation I will be overboosting. So I guess I will be losing about 100RWHP at this elevation, however I can really look forward to going to Phoenix for once.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 826
Likes: 12
From: Phoenix, AZ
Anything I can do while going through this process. Meaning when I build the engine or add headers or intake or will I always have to sacrifice at this elevation?
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Gilbert AZ
If your motor/setup can handle the extra power at sealevel then go for it. If you want to make ~600rwhp at 6000ft and have the setup for 750rwhp at sealevel then you'll be fine as long as the motor/fuel system/etc can support 750rwhp.
Another way to help with elevation would be to wastegate the S/C. That way your boost is always the same. Say you pulley for 12psi at sealevel. You get 10psi at elevation. Wastegate the setup for 9psi and you'll have 9psi at both elevations. You'll still lose power, but not as much.
Another way to help with elevation would be to wastegate the S/C. That way your boost is always the same. Say you pulley for 12psi at sealevel. You get 10psi at elevation. Wastegate the setup for 9psi and you'll have 9psi at both elevations. You'll still lose power, but not as much.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 826
Likes: 12
From: Phoenix, AZ
If your motor/setup can handle the extra power at sealevel then go for it. If you want to make ~600rwhp at 6000ft and have the setup for 750rwhp at sealevel then you'll be fine as long as the motor/fuel system/etc can support 750rwhp.
Another way to help with elevation would be to wastegate the S/C. That way your boost is always the same. Say you pulley for 12psi at sealevel. You get 10psi at elevation. Wastegate the setup for 9psi and you'll have 9psi at both elevations. You'll still lose power, but not as much.
Another way to help with elevation would be to wastegate the S/C. That way your boost is always the same. Say you pulley for 12psi at sealevel. You get 10psi at elevation. Wastegate the setup for 9psi and you'll have 9psi at both elevations. You'll still lose power, but not as much.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Santa Barbara CA
Platinum Supporting Vendor
Joined: Jul 2011
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That would be a question for your tuner. Best thing to do is try and find someone at your elevation, or close to tune it. As mentioned, with a smaller pulley you would be making more boost at lower elevations. Where are you located?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,418
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From: Chicagoland Area IL
Another way to help with elevation would be to wastegate the S/C. That way your boost is always the same. Say you pulley for 12psi at sealevel. You get 10psi at elevation. Wastegate the setup for 9psi and you'll have 9psi at both elevations. You'll still lose power, but not as much.
* A centrifugal compressor will to some extend draw in more air to overcome the leak (wastegate), this translates to lower hp per pound of boost or higher parasitic load.
* It will reduce efficiency in most cases because impeller is out of sweet spot, which will push temperatures up (less dense air – less power).
* It will push belt drive harder, potentially leading to slip issues.
This is short list and know this approach was featured in a magazine article.
Mike
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 826
Likes: 12
From: Phoenix, AZ
I am located in Snowflake, AZ about 180 miles East of Phoenix. I looked at your vendor in the Phoenix area, however felt more comfortable with Mike at TPS. So I drove to Cambell, Ca. I am happy with the work overall, However as stated I did notice a power difference at this elevation. I was interested in what was said about the wastegate method, however the next post talks about problems with efficiency and belt slippage. Also, I would still like to travel to different elevations. so it sounds like the best thing to do is to leave it as is and just take the power loss at the high elevation and enjoy the increased power at the lower elevation. As things progress I will go with a forged bottom end, cam, heads and headers with a goal of around 700-750RWHP. I would think that would be plenty of power at any elevation.
Let me know if you have any suggestions to make things better with my current set-up.
Thank you,
Mark G.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 274
Likes: 2
From: 320 MPH Speedo Alberta
Why not just get 2 ECUs and have one tuned for 6500' and the other for 1000' - pulley down too but instead of going with a 9psi wastegate just have a restrictor plate that you slip in your air filter (along with the 1000' ECU) when you go to low altitudes?
Last edited by Tone; Dec 9, 2011 at 07:48 AM.
Platinum Supporting Vendor
Joined: Jul 2011
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Frank,
I am located in Snowflake, AZ about 180 miles East of Phoenix. I looked at your vendor in the Phoenix area, however felt more comfortable with Mike at TPS. So I drove to Cambell, Ca. I am happy with the work overall, However as stated I did notice a power difference at this elevation. I was interested in what was said about the wastegate method, however the next post talks about problems with efficiency and belt slippage. Also, I would still like to travel to different elevations. so it sounds like the best thing to do is to leave it as is and just take the power loss at the high elevation and enjoy the increased power at the lower elevation. As things progress I will go with a forged bottom end, cam, heads and headers with a goal of around 700-750RWHP. I would think that would be plenty of power at any elevation.
Let me know if you have any suggestions to make things better with my current set-up.
Thank you,
Mark G.
I am located in Snowflake, AZ about 180 miles East of Phoenix. I looked at your vendor in the Phoenix area, however felt more comfortable with Mike at TPS. So I drove to Cambell, Ca. I am happy with the work overall, However as stated I did notice a power difference at this elevation. I was interested in what was said about the wastegate method, however the next post talks about problems with efficiency and belt slippage. Also, I would still like to travel to different elevations. so it sounds like the best thing to do is to leave it as is and just take the power loss at the high elevation and enjoy the increased power at the lower elevation. As things progress I will go with a forged bottom end, cam, heads and headers with a goal of around 700-750RWHP. I would think that would be plenty of power at any elevation.
Let me know if you have any suggestions to make things better with my current set-up.
Thank you,
Mark G.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
Likes: 2,342
From: Gilbert AZ
I can't see anyone doing that. Just use HPtuners to load a different tune in the same ecu if that is the route you want to go.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 274
Likes: 2
From: 320 MPH Speedo Alberta