E-force timing issues - Drag strip data
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
Not waiting on Edelbrock. Fixing it myself. Should be an easy fix. I'll fix the main timing table then data log it. I'll then set up a histogram for the timing table. Also, look for other probems. I'll probably have it fixed by the end of the day if the weather holds.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
Likes: 2,342
From: Gilbert AZ
Do you know what the timing map should look like from Edelbrock? I'm sure you can find a maggie timing map which should get you close. If you can't I can send you the factory maggie map as a starting point.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
It is fixed and drives great now.
What I did was copy the low octane map over to the high octane map. I drove it and all the problems just went away.
I did notice a couple of Knock retards in first gear. I'm not sure if it is a problem since the back end was loose. Pulling from about 4000 rpm no KR what so ever. I suspect I can get more aggressive on the timing there. Knock decay is way too long. I'll have to fix that.
For the most part the timing is very stable but something pulled timing a couple of times that wasn't KR related. Since I had the traction control off I'm not sure what it was. Maybe burst knock???
I know I'm on the correct path to optimizing performance and in a few days and after a trip or two to the track she be close to perfect.
NOW, I want to know what the hell happened! How could a faulty timing map end up in my PCM? Was it a defective SCT hand held programmer, or was it a corrupt update that I was required to download from Edelbrock's site, or was it a disgruntled employee. I actually uploaded the SCT tune twice just to make sure it wasn't a faulty download.
I think it would be wise for me to contact Edelbrock and let them know what happened so they can do a little house keeping.
Also, I would like to say, what a pleasure HP Tuner is to use. I am completely pleased with it. It took me about two weeks studying the demo and other things to get proficient with it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,191
Likes: 43
From: Scottsdale Az
That's the problem with canned tunes and why nobody should trust or use them. Just think, it could have cost you a motor if it went the other direction.
It's the equivalent of ordering that sandwich with no onions and getting onions on the first bite. Except these onions could cause some damage.
It's the equivalent of ordering that sandwich with no onions and getting onions on the first bite. Except these onions could cause some damage.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
That's the problem with canned tunes and why nobody should trust or use them. Just think, it could have cost you a motor if it went the other direction.
It's the equivalent of ordering that sandwich with no onions and getting onions on the first bite. Except these onions could cause some damage.
It's the equivalent of ordering that sandwich with no onions and getting onions on the first bite. Except these onions could cause some damage.
By golly I have to agree with you. The proof is in the pudding!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 968
Likes: 8
Do you have complete control and tuning over the ECU/PCM, and can you also put in a new PCM and change it's VIN to your cars vin?
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Tucson Arizona
Thank you for the offer but I don't think I will need it.
It is fixed and drives great now.
What I did was copy the low octane map over to the high octane map. I drove it and all the problems just went away.
I did notice a couple of Knock retards in first gear. I'm not sure if it is a problem since the back end was loose. Pulling from about 4000 rpm no KR what so ever. I suspect I can get more aggressive on the timing there. Knock decay is way too long. I'll have to fix that.
For the most part the timing is very stable but something pulled timing a couple of times that wasn't KR related. Since I had the traction control off I'm not sure what it was. Maybe burst knock???
I know I'm on the correct path to optimizing performance and in a few days and after a trip or two to the track she be close to perfect.
NOW, I want to know what the hell happened! How could a faulty timing map end up in my PCM? Was it a defective SCT hand held programmer, or was it a corrupt update that I was required to download from Edelbrock's site, or was it a disgruntled employee. I actually uploaded the SCT tune twice just to make sure it wasn't a faulty download.
I think it would be wise for me to contact Edelbrock and let them know what happened so they can do a little house keeping.
Also, I would like to say, what a pleasure HP Tuner is to use. I am completely pleased with it. It took me about two weeks studying the demo and other things to get proficient with it.
It is fixed and drives great now.
What I did was copy the low octane map over to the high octane map. I drove it and all the problems just went away.
I did notice a couple of Knock retards in first gear. I'm not sure if it is a problem since the back end was loose. Pulling from about 4000 rpm no KR what so ever. I suspect I can get more aggressive on the timing there. Knock decay is way too long. I'll have to fix that.
For the most part the timing is very stable but something pulled timing a couple of times that wasn't KR related. Since I had the traction control off I'm not sure what it was. Maybe burst knock???
I know I'm on the correct path to optimizing performance and in a few days and after a trip or two to the track she be close to perfect.
NOW, I want to know what the hell happened! How could a faulty timing map end up in my PCM? Was it a defective SCT hand held programmer, or was it a corrupt update that I was required to download from Edelbrock's site, or was it a disgruntled employee. I actually uploaded the SCT tune twice just to make sure it wasn't a faulty download.
I think it would be wise for me to contact Edelbrock and let them know what happened so they can do a little house keeping.
Also, I would like to say, what a pleasure HP Tuner is to use. I am completely pleased with it. It took me about two weeks studying the demo and other things to get proficient with it.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
I read something about that but don't know all the particulars. I think it is in the Q/A section of HP Tuners. It will probably do it but you might have to use or buy more credits.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
I just found another problem with the canned tune. The Power Enrichment EQ vs RPM table is the same as the stock tune. Calculates out at ~12.7:1. That probably explains a few knock retards in WOT. I'm going to fatten it up to ~11.0:1 and see what happens.
The transmission tune seems to be good. They actually did a good job on it.
The transmission tune seems to be good. They actually did a good job on it.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
Best way is to show you. I think this is conservative. Also keep in mind this run was with the stock PE table. So it went lean and there was a few degrees of timing pulled from knock. When the weather clears I will be able to correct the PE problem.
This might be better to show WOT timing.
Last edited by Red Sleeper; Dec 29, 2012 at 10:38 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,823
Likes: 42
From: East Aurora NY
I agree, conserative on the timing side @ wot. Are you going to check the VE / MAF tables? (need a wideband for that) At this point I personally wouldn't trust any of the tables supplied by EB.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
I believe the VE/MAF is correct. It matches closely another older copy of the tune that was sent to me.
At least I have a starting point.
Thanks
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,823
Likes: 42
From: East Aurora NY
If you notice that the AFR that you have in the PE table isn't what your wideband is reading then you need to work on the MAF table. I hope it's all set and that you only need to play with timing and PE.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
Likes: 2,342
From: Gilbert AZ
It is very possible they just hacked up the Maf/VE table to get richer and didn't touch the PE. I wouldn't mess with fueling too much until you can get a wideband and see what is going on. I would bump that timing up too. 7-8 is too low. Get it up to at least 10-11.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,823
Likes: 42
From: East Aurora NY
ugh that's horrible if they did that I'm a tad late to this party and assumed he had a wideband.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
What I'm going to do is faten it enough quinch the knocks if I can then bump timing until they come back or until I can run about 10* advance then start leaning it out.
Already it's far stronger than it was. I'll be tuning today and let everybody know how it turns out.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 334
From: Indianapolis Indiana
Late to the party?... Better late than never!
No wide band - but this old timer has been around the block a few times. I won't do anything too stupid I promice you. In the past we had to tune without wide bands. They had them but over the top expensive. We always got the job done.
My goal today is get as much timing as possible with no KR.