On a typical LS-3 SC application how well is your methanol system able to control the IAT durring a 1/4 mile run? Ex, on my system the IATs start at around 105 deg and peak up around 135 deg durring a 10 sec pass on a 80-90 deg day.

Also, how much Meth/water are you using durring a pass?

What % of meth to water are you using? Ex, the Snow Boost Juice that I have been using is 50% Meth / 50% water.

I have also heard that a higher % of water will have greater cooling charecteristics and keep the IATs lower. vs. a higher % of Meth, however a higher % of Meth will provide more octane benefits to reduce timing being pulled from KR being seen.

Any one with first hand experience using these systems on their car please share your info.

Thanks,
Dale

 

When I log 3rd gear pulls (1800-7000 rpm), my IATs usually drop into the high 50's and maybe get into the low 60's by the time I hit 120 mph. This is when it's ~65-75 degrees out. So, it usually stays well below ambient.

I run 100% VP M1, and I have a T-trim making ~11 psi.

 

OP - From what I can gather, you are running with an E-Force. I also have an E-Force but on an LS2 using 100% Meth (ALKY Control Systems). I have not noticed a great reduction in IAT's but am able to use the greater octane offered by the Meth to my advantage. A typical run through the 1/4 Mile will begin with IAT's around 130* and end around 150*. Before using Meth the temp difference from start to finish was greater (30+ degrees as compared to 20+ degrees with Meth).

 

Thanks for the info.

When using meth on an E Force where are you spraying it in at and aprox how much do you use during a pass?

thanks.

 

As per your question in the other thread I dont think spraying into the manifold is a very viable option. I had my car apart this winter and considered it but just didnt see a good way to install nozzles.

I havent been to the track yet but I went from a single to dual nozzle this year and did see some lower temps on the dyno. On 6 back to back pulls my iats peaked at about 122 degrees. I am sure they will be higher at the track, as the pull is much longer, but I am hoping it helps.
I run 50/50 water meth. The water cools more then meth and I am more interested in the cooling than the octane, although there is still benefits there too. I am not sure exactly now much in volume I am spraying, but it is definitely more with the dual nozzle. You have to remember I am running 12lbs of boost and 725 RWHP .
If it is mostly for the track you are concerned, you might consider a resevior like I added. With this if I find IATs are high, I can just drain out some water, and add some ice which should cool things considerable. The added capacity should help some in itself. If I can keep things to 130ish I wont bother with that though.

 

Meth down stream of a p/d blower looks like a potential cluster phuque to me. There's room to do it under a Maggie. I'm not familiar with the EForce enough to help there. You'd have to have individual nozzles on each cylinder....oriented just right too. Then, how would you know when one (or even more) of the eight isn't spraying right? Answer: you'd know when you roasted a cylinder.

 

Realcanuk - this looks like the exact Moroso tank I have, in the location where the battery was located. I drain the water in the tank down about half way and then pack it full of ice (it holds an entire 7 lb bag which makes it nice) and have figured how to get the best cooling effect by running the IC pump in the beginning, and then letting it sit until just before I go into the burnout box to make a pass. The water is near 40 deg and the two heat exchangers in the E Force are very cold to the touch before a run. However, even with this and the methanol the IATs climb into the 140-150 range at the end of a low-mid 10 second run on a 90 deg day.

On my dyno pulls I have IATs that start at 90-100 deg and only climb to 120 deg and I also think this is dut to the short 5-6 second dyno pull, and these IATs do correlate somewhat to the first 5 seconds of a dragstrip pass.

So my thought was to simply move the Methanol nozzle to the SC lid and let it disperse as it will in this plenum area. Just looking to do a before and after test to see how it might help the IATs on the same day.

Thanks,
Dale

 

Good info. Now I know what to expect with this setup. I don't think spraying on the heat exchangers will help. I rarely run at the track when its that hot out. I was getting 140 to about 155 IATs last year without this setup. I'm expecting better now.
I don't think 140 area is so bad considering that the sensor is heat soaked the way its setup. I pull very little timing there and have no KR. I don't think any super charged cars run much cooler. Some measure in the intake tube but that would obviously read cooler.

 

I am still waiting on my Moroso Tank! I am told it should ship by the 7th of June. I have moved the battery and everything is in place just waiting on the tank. Once I have the tank installed I will do some testing with Ice at the track. I have all my data logs and time slips from last season and will be able to make some good data comparisons before and after the new tank. I will report back as to what I find.

 

Something to try but you must be careful so it doesn't turn into a science project gone wrong as in dry ice bomb!

The Moroso tank might be well suited for granulated dry ice. A splash proof vent would be necessary as the CO2 will build pressure and a mix of water and antifreeze. I like the idea because the dry ice evaporates and you never have to drain it. After adding the dry ice, no idea how much, you may want to run the water pump continuously to prevent freezing. You may not need the intrecooler as it might work against you.

Dry ice is cheap and easy to get around here and it lasts a long time while transported in a cooler.

Wondering what all could go wrong!

 

You can't use water and antifreeze for a start. It will pretty much instantly freeze! you will need to use 100% meth or some coolent designed for -40 degrees c. I have seen a company in Aussie do it on Evos etc. Will try to find a link. You will need to think about drip trays as well as any bare metal surface will ice over. Would deffinately be intressting to see. But it's not really for street use unless you can get a big enough tank.

 

There may be a limit to how cold you make things. You certainly wouldn't want the heat exchanger to ice up on the out side and restrict air flow into the engine. As far as freezing the water or antifreeze maybe you could just use less dry ice.

 

New Question: for those who run Methanol in a med to high hp application ~ 700 WHp in my case, how much Methanol fluid do you use after a night of racing?

Ex: if you made the equalivant of six or seven 1/4 mile passes and only used 1 quart of Methanol fluid would this seem lighter than where it should be?

This is my scenario and I am thinking this is maybe half of what it should be and I am looking for some feedback from those who have used Methanol for some time and have the insight to what your usage rate is normally. Mine is a Snow Performance stage 3. The nozzle is not color coded like the ones they offer now days but the hole in the end measures ~ 0.045". I do not fully understand the settings on the digital. Box but plan to print the instructions and read up on where it is set, which was done 2 Dyno shops ago, so I don't have any details or confidence. on where it is set.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

I never measured exactly, but I can tell you that last year, when at 600 rwhp and single nozzle, If I ran 5 or 6 runs at the track I would use somewhere around a half gallon. I am spraying more now with dual nozzles but havent been to the track yet.

 

Thanks for the info, it confirms what I am thinking.

If you have a Snow digital controller kit what program do you use: boost, inj pulse %, or Both, as the program type and then what kind of start and peak numbers do you have set to ramp in the spray.

Thanks,

 

I have Alky Control. Its triggered off the MAF. Starts spraying at around 3lbs boost, and is progressive from there, depending on airflow.

 

I typically use around 1/2 gal of meth per outing (6 to 8 full passes). As I am staged to make a pass I will operate the Alky Pump by pushing the red test button, purging the system so I know it is working, spraying meth and ready for action. My system is Alky Control and the flow **** is set to around 7 or about 70% of max. Inj duty cycle drops in proportion to the amount I spray. I have a single nozzle.

 

Here is some info fromthe Aussie guys.

http://www.are.com.au/Big%20HP/Dry%2...%20cooling.htm

There is a build on their site that hose into more details about solutions required. Anything water based will not work!

 

guys --a am renewed to the corvette scene after playing with supercharged /water methanol
10:1 compression rotary engine car for the past 10 years. I have a little experience with water meth injection used in road racing.
Couple questions if i may?
1- where are you recording your intake air temps from?
2- injector location and size?
3- running a air to air intercooler/no intercooler. air water intercooler?
4- how many pounds of boost?
5- electric or manual check valve?
6- where is your w/m tank located?
7- are you tuned for w/m injection are just using it for preventative measures?

One thing that surprised me as I was learning about w/m injection, is that the water is actually what increases the "octane" rating the most and it is the meth that cools the intake charge the most.
It gets complicated when you start running a dual fuel car.

 

I guess dry ice is out for me! Did you see that contraption sticking out of the hood of the little brown car?

Also, for them the dry ice itself was rather expensive. They were getting impressive HP gains though. For somebody that really wants to take their forced induction to the limit it just might be worth it but for me na!