2012 GS, Centri or PD Info needed
03-12-2018, 01:40 AM
#1
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2012 GS, Centri or PD Info needed
Looking to go to FI on my 2012 GS with LS3 and dry sump. I like the instant power of the PD units and since long full throttle runs on the highway are few and far between Im leaning to the PD. I drove a ZR1 and it was amazing. My question is which creates more heat, centri or PD? I live in florida so 80+ all year is normal, and so is stop and go traffic. Anyone have a "heartbeat" PD unit installed on a GS? Especially the dry sump version. Where do you put the extra cooling tank, and how difficult was the install. Looking for feedback from people that actually have either or installed on cars in florida, Arizona or texas. I don't want to go to the trouble only to find out the heat soak is impossible to control. I still want to be able to drive it even on the hottest summer day. Also what can I expect to see for MPG on the PD? on the Centri? Thanks for any and all guiding info. Im new to FI and looking for the people with the know to guide me.
Thank you
Thank you
03-12-2018, 05:44 AM
#2
I'm interested in the answer to this, too.
2011 GS, but wet sump and I've been leaning towards a centrifugal. BTW, what's your HP goal? I've been leaning towards either 600 (v3 Si) or 700 RWHP (v3 Ti).
2011 GS, but wet sump and I've been leaning towards a centrifugal. BTW, what's your HP goal? I've been leaning towards either 600 (v3 Si) or 700 RWHP (v3 Ti).
Last edited by keithd; 03-12-2018 at 05:50 AM.
03-12-2018, 08:40 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
As I mentioned in your thread in the tech section. 2013 GS here with dry sump, Heartbeat, mild cam, LT's, and Dewitts radiator. Removed the air/oil EOC and ran engine oil through the Dewitts using stock GM oil lines for a Z51. Bolt together setup. Cooling fans were set aggressively in the tune and a 165* stat was employed. Looking back on it, it probably ran too cool at cruise. A 185* stat would probably have been a better choice.
ECT's consistently ran 180ish at cruise, no matter the outside air temps. You could actually park it, idling in 95* TX heat and humidity, in the sun, A/C blowing cold, and ECT's wouldn't get much, if any, over 200. I don't think you'll find a cooler running supercharger setup for a C6.
If you're good with mid 600's at the wheels, it's a good way to go for a street Vette. Get a bigger centri or turbo rig if you want much more than that.
ECT's consistently ran 180ish at cruise, no matter the outside air temps. You could actually park it, idling in 95* TX heat and humidity, in the sun, A/C blowing cold, and ECT's wouldn't get much, if any, over 200. I don't think you'll find a cooler running supercharger setup for a C6.
If you're good with mid 600's at the wheels, it's a good way to go for a street Vette. Get a bigger centri or turbo rig if you want much more than that.
03-13-2018, 06:48 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by old motorhead
As I mentioned in your thread in the tech section. 2013 GS here with dry sump, Heartbeat, mild cam, LT's, and Dewitts radiator. Removed the air/oil EOC and ran engine oil through the Dewitts using stock GM oil lines for a Z51. Bolt together setup. Cooling fans were set aggressively in the tune and a 165* stat was employed. Looking back on it, it probably ran too cool at cruise. A 185* stat would probably have been a better choice.
ECT's consistently ran 180ish at cruise, no matter the outside air temps. You could actually park it, idling in 95* TX heat and humidity, in the sun, A/C blowing cold, and ECT's wouldn't get much, if any, over 200. I don't think you'll find a cooler running supercharger setup for a C6.
If you're good with mid 600's at the wheels, it's a good way to go for a street Vette. Get a bigger centri or turbo rig if you want much more than that.
ECT's consistently ran 180ish at cruise, no matter the outside air temps. You could actually park it, idling in 95* TX heat and humidity, in the sun, A/C blowing cold, and ECT's wouldn't get much, if any, over 200. I don't think you'll find a cooler running supercharger setup for a C6.
If you're good with mid 600's at the wheels, it's a good way to go for a street Vette. Get a bigger centri or turbo rig if you want much more than that.
03-13-2018, 07:59 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
Dry sump Grand Sports have the same air cooled engine oil heat exchanger as Z06's. Sits in front of the radiator if memory serves. Best I can describe it is that it looks like a small radiator.
I have no idea how effective the Dewitts radiator's integral oil cooler is compared to the stocker. Never road coursed that particular Vette. I did like the fact that the engine oil got to operating temp quicker with the cooler in the radiator. Also believe that removing that heat source from in front of the radiator helped with engine coolant temps. Probably helped with intake air temps too.
I have no idea how effective the Dewitts radiator's integral oil cooler is compared to the stocker. Never road coursed that particular Vette. I did like the fact that the engine oil got to operating temp quicker with the cooler in the radiator. Also believe that removing that heat source from in front of the radiator helped with engine coolant temps. Probably helped with intake air temps too.
03-13-2018, 10:09 PM
#6
CI_GS has one, as many others here do. His climate matches yours, here's a few of his threads...
Check out this thread also...
I have one with a dry sump, fits OK no issues...
Check out this thread also...
I have one with a dry sump, fits OK no issues...
Anyone have a "heartbeat" PD unit installed on a GS? Especially the dry sump version. Where do you put the extra cooling tank, and how difficult was the install. Looking for feedback from people that actually have either or installed on cars in florida, Arizona or texas. I don't want to go to the trouble only to find out the heat soak is impossible to control. I still want to be able to drive it even on the hottest summer day. Also what can I expect to see for MPG on the PD? on the Centri? Thanks for any and all guiding info. Im new to FI and looking for the people with the know to guide me.
Thank you
Thank you
03-14-2018, 06:15 AM
#7
Pro
Check out this thread also...
Is there a shorter answer available that you can provide?
03-14-2018, 09:17 AM
#8
Looking to go to FI on my 2012 GS with LS3 and dry sump. I like the instant power of the PD units and since long full throttle runs on the highway are few and far between Im leaning to the PD. I drove a ZR1 and it was amazing. My question is which creates more heat, centri or PD? I live in florida so 80+ all year is normal, and so is stop and go traffic. Anyone have a "heartbeat" PD unit installed on a GS? Especially the dry sump version. Where do you put the extra cooling tank, and how difficult was the install. Looking for feedback from people that actually have either or installed on cars in florida, Arizona or texas. I don't want to go to the trouble only to find out the heat soak is impossible to control. I still want to be able to drive it even on the hottest summer day. Also what can I expect to see for MPG on the PD? on the Centri? Thanks for any and all guiding info. Im new to FI and looking for the people with the know to guide me.
Thank you
Thank you
The biggest challenge for the C6 PD blowers is the packaging/underhood space, which results in those two blower being designed with smaller than optimum CACs, and the limited packaging space also requires a very small H/X coolant resovoir as well. Since I have an A6 GS, I was able to relocate my battery and use the battery box to install a 1 gallon H/X expansion tank and reroute the flow so that it became a true “flow through” system, which helped lower max WOT IATs by about 10 degrees at the top of 4th gear. I’ve also recently installed the taller Cadillac/Camaro lid on my car as well, which necessitated the installation of an aftermarket hood to gain the headroom for the taller blower lid, but from the IATs I’m seeing now, it was worth the work.
FWIW: The maximum IAT I’ve seen so far is 109* in ~85* Caribbean “winter” weather, as shown in the picture below from a recent datalog I did on my car. I would challenge anyone to show me an IAT anywhere near that with any other blower setup with comparable boost and without spraying meth. Without question, the right centrifugal setup has more power potential than any PD setup. But if you’re not out to make 800+hp but rather more after dependable/reliable day to day driving in a hot climate, in traffic, without any overheating issues, then I think the Heartbeat will be a pleasant experience for you.
I realize that you're asking about a M6/Dry sump GS setup, and you might not be interested in changing your hood, etc. but I would urge you to consider what oldmotorhead has said about his setup, since that’s what he had. He’s rarely wrong on these things. Just don’t tell him I said so.
Last edited by CI GS; 03-14-2018 at 09:18 AM.
03-14-2018, 09:23 AM
#9
While I am sure that there is a ton of good information in the thread for which you provided the link with the best of intentions, the OP was looking for a "short" answer. The thread has 89 pages and 1763 posts. You provided a link to "War and Peace"...........
Is there a shorter answer available that you can provide?
Is there a shorter answer available that you can provide?
03-14-2018, 10:39 AM
#10
Team Owner
A heart bear, or ECS/A&A kit will both do fine, and work great. I prefer the Centri on a vette, but either one will do what you want with ease.
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Josh@AandASuperchargers (03-16-2018)
03-14-2018, 11:43 AM
#11
I would go with an A&A kit and head unit for your power goals. They work great on the GS. Ti trim up to 800whp and YSi beyond.
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Josh@AandASuperchargers (03-16-2018)
03-15-2018, 02:26 AM
#12
War and peace - that's about it, LOL. I was being lazy - and hoping others that ran their car a lot more in a hotter climate would chime in, not to mention they're much more knowledgeable - and can better compare a Centri system vs. Roots (good excuses, I think, LOL).
It gets hot where I live in the Norcal Bay Area, >100*F occasionally in the summer, but I normally cherry pick the days when I drive my car, only to enjoy the improved performance when it's cooler out. Normally I pick times when it's cool, and mostly at night. I don't have a lot of experience with it in hot weather, especially running it hard, without good freeway time (high air flow) to keep it cool. It hasn't ran too hot ever, but I do like to run it when it's cool outside, just me...it does perform much better. But in my experience of city >85*F summer days, it stays cool, and has never got even close to being of any concern (I run a 160*F t-stat, and have a DeWitts rad too).
The dry sump has more room I think, due to the battery not competing for space in that area. The IC Hx tank is not even really an inter-cooler tank, in that it is primarily a surge tank.
The pump takes suction directly from the return line, and as CI_GS stated, doesn't even flow back in to the tank. There is simply a "T" in that section, and the volume of coolant in that surge tank only ensures there is sufficient coolant - with a small hydrostatic head pressure - to ensure the system stays primed.
Not necessary - or ever issue I've read, but like many other, most try to optimize it if possible. The Bosch IC pump is a good workhorse, but some try & find used ZR1 pumps or other "better" pumps (I have 3 ZR1 pumps ready to go - but their not installed yet) to help keep thinks cool. LPE has a lot of inter-web pump curve comparison tests out there, such as this one.
With the small standard Maggie IC Hx surge tank, one cannot use any type of cooling medium like ice packs, etc. if wanting to super-cool at a track. And EVEN if that stock tank was huge, an ice pack would not even work, because normal design is that coolant would not even flow in the tank - as it's NOT a once through system, in stock form. The coolant would bypass thew material/coolant in the tank (I'll try to find a drawing). If you wanted to do that (ad a bigger tank like like CI_GS did) it would have to be a custom install, and after that ice/packs could be added to the tank. Many ZR1 guys mount mega tanks in the rear, junk the stock ZR1 pump and install mega plumbing with cool *** SS welded tanks and high-end plumbing & pumps...
Here are couple of pics of my tank.
I have zero experience with centri blowers, so cannot compare heat/IAT temps.
I know when my cars is parked when hot - and sits an hour, the IAT's are hot (<140*F), but drop extremely quick once the ig is switched on, and the Bosch IC pump starts up, and especially when you get any air flow across the Hx.
Temps - best IAT vs. Ambient temp in my experience = Ambient + 13*F. So if it's 85*F out, and I'm on the freeway, the IAT's will as low as 85+13=98*F. Not bad.
Temps - driving in heavy city traffic when hot outside (>85*F), with low air flow, hot rodding it, temps can run 20-25*F above Ambient. Power is noticeably down at this point, in my car at least. Example Ambient = 90*F + ~25*F = IAT = 115*F. Never seen it higher than that...
As stated most prefer centri's. Cost less, too, and can be wound up to make better power if that's your goal.
It's just not mine...plus I'm super rich
It gets hot where I live in the Norcal Bay Area, >100*F occasionally in the summer, but I normally cherry pick the days when I drive my car, only to enjoy the improved performance when it's cooler out. Normally I pick times when it's cool, and mostly at night. I don't have a lot of experience with it in hot weather, especially running it hard, without good freeway time (high air flow) to keep it cool. It hasn't ran too hot ever, but I do like to run it when it's cool outside, just me...it does perform much better. But in my experience of city >85*F summer days, it stays cool, and has never got even close to being of any concern (I run a 160*F t-stat, and have a DeWitts rad too).
The dry sump has more room I think, due to the battery not competing for space in that area. The IC Hx tank is not even really an inter-cooler tank, in that it is primarily a surge tank.
The pump takes suction directly from the return line, and as CI_GS stated, doesn't even flow back in to the tank. There is simply a "T" in that section, and the volume of coolant in that surge tank only ensures there is sufficient coolant - with a small hydrostatic head pressure - to ensure the system stays primed.
Not necessary - or ever issue I've read, but like many other, most try to optimize it if possible. The Bosch IC pump is a good workhorse, but some try & find used ZR1 pumps or other "better" pumps (I have 3 ZR1 pumps ready to go - but their not installed yet) to help keep thinks cool. LPE has a lot of inter-web pump curve comparison tests out there, such as this one.
With the small standard Maggie IC Hx surge tank, one cannot use any type of cooling medium like ice packs, etc. if wanting to super-cool at a track. And EVEN if that stock tank was huge, an ice pack would not even work, because normal design is that coolant would not even flow in the tank - as it's NOT a once through system, in stock form. The coolant would bypass thew material/coolant in the tank (I'll try to find a drawing). If you wanted to do that (ad a bigger tank like like CI_GS did) it would have to be a custom install, and after that ice/packs could be added to the tank. Many ZR1 guys mount mega tanks in the rear, junk the stock ZR1 pump and install mega plumbing with cool *** SS welded tanks and high-end plumbing & pumps...
Here are couple of pics of my tank.
I have zero experience with centri blowers, so cannot compare heat/IAT temps.
I know when my cars is parked when hot - and sits an hour, the IAT's are hot (<140*F), but drop extremely quick once the ig is switched on, and the Bosch IC pump starts up, and especially when you get any air flow across the Hx.
Temps - best IAT vs. Ambient temp in my experience = Ambient + 13*F. So if it's 85*F out, and I'm on the freeway, the IAT's will as low as 85+13=98*F. Not bad.
Temps - driving in heavy city traffic when hot outside (>85*F), with low air flow, hot rodding it, temps can run 20-25*F above Ambient. Power is noticeably down at this point, in my car at least. Example Ambient = 90*F + ~25*F = IAT = 115*F. Never seen it higher than that...
As stated most prefer centri's. Cost less, too, and can be wound up to make better power if that's your goal.
It's just not mine...plus I'm super rich
Last edited by Chiselchst; 03-15-2018 at 05:10 PM.
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CI GS (03-16-2018)
03-15-2018, 05:48 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
I know a guy running a centri on road courses had a hell of a time with overheating, are PD units any better?
03-15-2018, 08:01 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
The more horsepower you EMPLOY, the more heat you have to shed. Motor and gearboxes all need help when you're using all the power available. A big power car loafing around the track can stay cool easily. A stocker running ***** to the walls will need more cooling than comes with it.
I ran my TVS jackshaft blown C6 on a road course in hot weather with no problems. The course was so tight that you couldn't stay in the throttle very long. 105 mph was as fast as it got. It had 640 available horses at the wheels, but you could only use all of them for seconds at a time.
I ran my TVS jackshaft blown C6 on a road course in hot weather with no problems. The course was so tight that you couldn't stay in the throttle very long. 105 mph was as fast as it got. It had 640 available horses at the wheels, but you could only use all of them for seconds at a time.
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CI GS (03-15-2018)
03-16-2018, 12:03 AM
#16
War and peace - that's about it, LOL. I was being lazy - and hoping others that ran their car a lot more in a hotter climate would chime in, not to mention they're much more knowledgeable - and can better compare a Centri system vs. Roots (good excuses, I think, LOL).
It gets hot where I live in the Norcal Bay Area, >100*F occasionally in the summer, but I normally cherry pick the days when I drive my car, only to enjoy the improved performance when it's cooler out. Normally I pick times when it's cool, and mostly at night. I don't have a lot of experience with it in hot weather, especially running it hard, without good freeway time (high air flow) to keep it cool. It hasn't ran too hot ever, but I do like to run it when it's cool outside, just me...it does perform much better. But in my experience of city >85*F summer days, it stays cool, and has never got even close to being of any concern (I run a 160*F t-stat, and have a DeWitts rad too).
The dry sump has more room I think, due to the battery not competing for space in that area. The IC Hx tank is not even really an inter-cooler tank, in that it is primarily a surge tank.
The pump takes suction directly from the return line, and as CI_GS stated, doesn't even flow back in to the tank. There is simply a "T" in that section, and the volume of coolant in that surge tank only ensures there is sufficient coolant - with a small hydrostatic head pressure - to ensure the system stays primed.
Not necessary - or ever issue I've read, but like many other, most try to optimize it if possible. The Bosch IC pump is a good workhorse, but some try & find used ZR1 pumps or other "better" pumps (I have 3 ZR1 pumps ready to go - but their not installed yet) to help keep thinks cool. LPE has a lot of inter-web pump curve comparison tests out there, such as this one.
With the small standard Maggie IC Hx surge tank, one cannot use any type of cooling medium like ice packs, etc. if wanting to super-cool at a track. And EVEN if that stock tank was huge, an ice pack would not even work, because normal design is that coolant would not even flow in the tank - as it's NOT a once through system, in stock form. The coolant would bypass thew material/coolant in the tank (I'll try to find a drawing). If you wanted to do that (ad a bigger tank like like CI_GS did) it would have to be a custom install, and after that ice/packs could be added to the tank. Many ZR1 guys mount mega tanks in the rear, junk the stock ZR1 pump and install mega plumbing with cool *** SS welded tanks and high-end plumbing & pumps...
Here are couple of pics of my tank.
I have zero experience with centri blowers, so cannot compare heat/IAT temps.
I know when my cars is parked when hot - and sits an hour, the IAT's are hot (<140*F), but drop extremely quick once the ig is switched on, and the Bosch IC pump starts up, and especially when you get any air flow across the Hx.
Temps - best IAT vs. Ambient temp in my experience = Ambient + 13*F. So if it's 85*F out, and I'm on the freeway, the IAT's will as low as 85+13=98*F. Not bad.
Temps - driving in heavy city traffic when hot outside (>85*F), with low air flow, hot rodding it, temps can run 20-25*F above Ambient. Power is noticeably down at this point, in my car at least. Example Ambient = 90*F + ~25*F = IAT = 115*F. Never seen it higher than that...
As stated most prefer centri's. Cost less, too, and can be wound up to make better power if that's your goal.
It's just not mine...plus I'm super rich
It gets hot where I live in the Norcal Bay Area, >100*F occasionally in the summer, but I normally cherry pick the days when I drive my car, only to enjoy the improved performance when it's cooler out. Normally I pick times when it's cool, and mostly at night. I don't have a lot of experience with it in hot weather, especially running it hard, without good freeway time (high air flow) to keep it cool. It hasn't ran too hot ever, but I do like to run it when it's cool outside, just me...it does perform much better. But in my experience of city >85*F summer days, it stays cool, and has never got even close to being of any concern (I run a 160*F t-stat, and have a DeWitts rad too).
The dry sump has more room I think, due to the battery not competing for space in that area. The IC Hx tank is not even really an inter-cooler tank, in that it is primarily a surge tank.
The pump takes suction directly from the return line, and as CI_GS stated, doesn't even flow back in to the tank. There is simply a "T" in that section, and the volume of coolant in that surge tank only ensures there is sufficient coolant - with a small hydrostatic head pressure - to ensure the system stays primed.
Not necessary - or ever issue I've read, but like many other, most try to optimize it if possible. The Bosch IC pump is a good workhorse, but some try & find used ZR1 pumps or other "better" pumps (I have 3 ZR1 pumps ready to go - but their not installed yet) to help keep thinks cool. LPE has a lot of inter-web pump curve comparison tests out there, such as this one.
With the small standard Maggie IC Hx surge tank, one cannot use any type of cooling medium like ice packs, etc. if wanting to super-cool at a track. And EVEN if that stock tank was huge, an ice pack would not even work, because normal design is that coolant would not even flow in the tank - as it's NOT a once through system, in stock form. The coolant would bypass thew material/coolant in the tank (I'll try to find a drawing). If you wanted to do that (ad a bigger tank like like CI_GS did) it would have to be a custom install, and after that ice/packs could be added to the tank. Many ZR1 guys mount mega tanks in the rear, junk the stock ZR1 pump and install mega plumbing with cool *** SS welded tanks and high-end plumbing & pumps...
Here are couple of pics of my tank.
I have zero experience with centri blowers, so cannot compare heat/IAT temps.
I know when my cars is parked when hot - and sits an hour, the IAT's are hot (<140*F), but drop extremely quick once the ig is switched on, and the Bosch IC pump starts up, and especially when you get any air flow across the Hx.
Temps - best IAT vs. Ambient temp in my experience = Ambient + 13*F. So if it's 85*F out, and I'm on the freeway, the IAT's will as low as 85+13=98*F. Not bad.
Temps - driving in heavy city traffic when hot outside (>85*F), with low air flow, hot rodding it, temps can run 20-25*F above Ambient. Power is noticeably down at this point, in my car at least. Example Ambient = 90*F + ~25*F = IAT = 115*F. Never seen it higher than that...
As stated most prefer centri's. Cost less, too, and can be wound up to make better power if that's your goal.
It's just not mine...plus I'm super rich
03-16-2018, 01:33 AM
#17
I know! I almost pulled the trigger on a ZR1 tank, looked like it might fit.
If I go to E85/flex, cam/lifters, OD HB, clutch and more I'll definitely install a once through tank like yours...the Maggie tank is kind of weak...
Trying to decide if I should do that, as my home needs a total gut & remodel, and that will require a LOT of work, hassle and money. And won't be as much fun...
If I go to E85/flex, cam/lifters, OD HB, clutch and more I'll definitely install a once through tank like yours...the Maggie tank is kind of weak...
Trying to decide if I should do that, as my home needs a total gut & remodel, and that will require a LOT of work, hassle and money. And won't be as much fun...
06-29-2018, 02:05 PM
#18
Instructor
As I mentioned in your thread in the tech section. 2013 GS here with dry sump, Heartbeat, mild cam, LT's, and Dewitts radiator. Removed the air/oil EOC and ran engine oil through the Dewitts using stock GM oil lines for a Z51. Bolt together setup. Cooling fans were set aggressively in the tune and a 165* stat was employed. Looking back on it, it probably ran too cool at cruise. A 185* stat would probably have been a better choice.
ECT's consistently ran 180ish at cruise, no matter the outside air temps. You could actually park it, idling in 95* TX heat and humidity, in the sun, A/C blowing cold, and ECT's wouldn't get much, if any, over 200. I don't think you'll find a cooler running supercharger setup for a C6.
If you're good with mid 600's at the wheels, it's a good way to go for a street Vette. Get a bigger centri or turbo rig if you want much more than that.
ECT's consistently ran 180ish at cruise, no matter the outside air temps. You could actually park it, idling in 95* TX heat and humidity, in the sun, A/C blowing cold, and ECT's wouldn't get much, if any, over 200. I don't think you'll find a cooler running supercharger setup for a C6.
If you're good with mid 600's at the wheels, it's a good way to go for a street Vette. Get a bigger centri or turbo rig if you want much more than that.
06-30-2018, 01:57 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
Superchargersonline.com. Talk to Brian. Good guy, very knowledgeable, and good pricing. Pulley was an 81mm which is a little less than 3.2". Boost checked in at about 10psi. Had another TVS2300 running a 3.3" pulley, set up similarly, and it saw 9psi. I'm at 150' above sea level which makes a difference comparing boost levels on similar setups..
Last edited by old motorhead; 06-30-2018 at 01:59 AM.
06-30-2018, 02:08 AM
#20
I'm running an a&a v3si kit on my 2013 gs dry sump in Florida and run road courses. With the dewitts radiator and using the EOC on that radiator temps would get pretty high on oil and coolant. Installed 2 external oil coolers (closed off the EOC section of the Dewitts radiator) in the bumpers and oil is now always 180 to 205/210 in stop and go depending on how hot the day is. Coolant was 205 in stop and go without ac in 90+ weather high humidity. With ac full blast sitting at stoplights it will currently hit 215-235 on coolant because that ac condenser sits directly in front of the radiator. Never overheats but def high in stop and go with ac on. On highway with ac in summer oil temps are 180 to 200 and coolant 200 to 205. On track usually coolant is 225 max even after 20 minutes. Oil temps depend on the track. I did run a track day in 95 deg and high humidity last fri and oil was 225 but coolant was hitting 245 to 250 after 7 laps... it was a track with almost no long straights to get air over radiator and the ambient air temps were brutal. That's the 1st time I've ever had coolant temps that high, but I am currently running straight coolant. I'm switching to 85% distilled water/15% coolant/and water wetter to see if that helps drop temps hopefully 10 deg at least in hot weather. I'll update after I do it next week.