...

WELL ME AND MY BUDDIES SHURITE44 AND EB2003 HAVE BEEN HAVING FUN WITH THIS FOR A WHILE......

The C6 performance challange list currently has 9 mn6 C6 1/4 mile times listed for there bone stock 100% rubber class..

Unfortunetly NINEBALL is not 100% bone stock..So I eliminated him from the list for my comparison purposes...

Out of the 8 elidgible 100% bone stock mn6 C6's..

there 1/4 mile average was a 12.725 at 111.37 mph

The C5 1/4 mile 100% bone stock list currently has 14 mn6 C5's...

But to make this comparison as close as possible...I eliminated 6 of the 14 C5's leaving the top 8 C5's to duke it out with the 8 C6's..

The 8 bone stock C5's had an average of

13.037 at 108.75 mph


So as of right now the C6 has a 0.312 tenth and 2.62 mph advantage over the C5 stock for stock

I cant wait till each list has a solid 20 mn6's listed so we can have some better comparisons..

LARON

 

Good data. Now where's the inevitable C5 Z06 vs C6 thread?

 

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&page=12&pp=20

Bone stock
DrRichie, Z51 .... 12.42 @ 113.9
Jschindler, Z51 .... 12.49 @ 114.9
Orange C6, Z51/auto .... 12.5 @ 112
Nine Ball, Z51 ..... 12.54 @ 113.24 (fan/stat mod)
Zippin Zee, Z51 .... 12.65 @ 111.65
Shooter 49, Auto/3:15 .... 12.7 @109.
Tommy D, Auto/3:15 .... 12.83 @109.44
Jchazr, Z51 ...... 12.86 @110.98
Ginny C6, Auto/F55 .... 12.97 @ 108 *


Eliminating Nine Ball

I get an average of 12.6775 @111.23

For the C5 list I get

TORCHDU...MN6...12.84...110mph

Jim K 98 (A4) 12.936....107mph GSXRJACK had a smooth air coupler so he was not stock.

MGORMAN...MN6...13.06....111.89

AQUAMAN...MN6...13.018...109.26

JOHNSHIELS...MN6...13.01...108

GBJORK50...MN6...13.1...110

Stangar 383.... 13.13...106.28

TURBO BOB 87 (A4)...13.155...105.65

Avg 13.031 @108.51


Difference 13.031-12.678= 0.353 seconds

111.23-108.51= 2.72mph.

So as of right now, on this forum, on the whole, auto and manual, the C6 has a .353 seconds advantage over the stock C5. That works out to somewhere between 3 and 4 car lengths at those speeds.

So, to take a page from your book, what we see here is that:

A well driven bone stock C6 runs 12.6xx.

A well driven bone stock C5 runs 13.0xx.

A nearly 4 tenths advantage is worth the price of admission.





*http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show..._id=101&arch=1
Tommy, you left Ginny C6's trap speed out

 

HEY DONT MESS WITH MY DATA MAN...

I DIDNT BRAKE THE C6 AND C5 NUMBERS DOWN TO 13.333 AT 106.789


I WOULD JUST PUT THE ET AT 13.3 AND THE MPH AT 106..

THATS WHY ON MY LIST THERE NUMBERS DONT SHOW ANY 13.333 OR 12.999'S...

I JUST KEPT IT SIMPLE

SINCE MY LIST IS WRITTEN LIKE THAT I DID YOUR LIST THE SAME WAY..



FOR EXAMPLE...

JSCHINDLERS 12.49 IS ACTUALY A LOT CLOSER TO 12.5 THAN 12.4 SO ME JUST SAYING 12.4 ACTUALY HELPED YOU GUYS OUT...

ON THE OTHER HAND HIS 114.9 IS ACTUALLY CLOSER TO 115 AND ME JUST SAYING 114 HURTS YOUR NUMBERS..

EIGHTER WAY IT WORKS BOTH WAYS FOR US AS WELL....


I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS WOULD PREFER TO KEEP THIS THING 100% ACCURATE AND DOWN TO THE LAST HUNDRETH..

BUT YOU GOTTA REMEMBER THAT SOME OF THESE C5 GUYS RAN THERE CAR BONE STOCK MANY YEARS AGO AND NO LONGER HAVE THE SLIP TO TELL YOU WHAT THE HUNDRETHS WERE...

BUT THEY CAN REMEMBER RUNNING A 13.1 AT 109...

JUST NOT RUNNING A 13.195 AT 109.23


SO LETS JUST DO THE NUMBERS ROUNDED LIKE THE WAY OUR C5 1/4 MILE TIMES PAGE IS DONE FOR COMPARISONS....


OTHERWISE......IT'S JUST NEVER GONNA WORK CAS MOST OF THE C5 GUYS RAN THERE STOCK TIME YEARS AGO AND DONT HAVE THE SLIPS ANYMORE.


UNLIKE MOST OF YOU C6 GUYS WHO JUST RAN YOUR BEST BONE STOCK TIME A FEW MONTHS AGO AND ARE ONLY NOW STARTING TO MOD.





Also.....why did you add a4 guys to this mn6 comparison????

Turbobob is a 2.73 geared C5...

Please only do the nubers for your 8 mn6 C6's...

Thank you for seeing that GSX has a smooth air coupler and is not 100% bone stock...

I overlooked that one...

Please replace him with my #9 man from the mn6 C5's....

 

OK I see what your trying to do now...

You took my top guys weather mn6 or auto and did the math against your top mn6/a4 guys....

This is not what I was trying to do...


only use the numbers for your 8 100% bone stock mn6 C6's

only use the numbers for my 8 100% bone stock C5's...


For the comparison purposes both Nine ball and Gsxrjack have been eliminated.

 

Can't do it that way. Every thousandth counts and ought to be included just as it is on the time slip wherever feasable.

Our best bone stock guys are averaging 12.678 just as it would appear on a time slip.

The best C5 bone stock guys are averaging 13.031, again just as it would appear on a time slip.

Now if you wish, we could say 12.6 vs 13.0. But that would make the gap even wider. Then we would have a full 4 tenths advantage on you. We'll take it if thats what you are offering. But I was just trying to help you and keep it as close as possible.

People who have owned both cars know stock for stock, the C5 is nowhere close to running with a C6.

A guy runs 12.999, and he comes back and says he ran a 12.9. Cool. But for the purposes of accuracy he really ran closer to a 13 flat. But to go by the book, just as they would in the NHRA, it goes down as 12.999.

 

Can't do it that way. Some of my fast guys drive automatics. Why should we be penalized for that?

People with autos and manuals drag race their cars.

We have to know how a C5, ALL C5s stack up against ALL C6s.

Not just autos or manuals.

If we do it that way, seperate them into auto vs manual then whats next. Colors? Weather conditions? Track elevation?

Can't do it that way. Too much unnecessary information.

The public is asking the question "How does a C5 stack up against a C6? " The people want to know how a C5 stacks up against a C6. Not necessarily how a C5 manual stacks up against a C6 manual. Too much depends on the driver. Too much variability.


What I did was went and got the fastest cars I could find from both the C5 and C6 camps. It didn't matter what kind of transmission they had, what color they were, whether they had polished wheels on them or wagon wheels, as long as they were STOCK.

 

Thats OK with me if Turbo Bob is 2.73 geared. As long as he is stock.

Our A6 guys are 2.56 geared.

 

EB2003..

I completely 100% agree with you..

But even some of your C6 guys ...

ORANGEC6..12.5 AT 112

SHOOTER49..12.7 AT 109

GINNY C6...12.97 AT 108


You tellin me that orange C6 actually ran 12.500 at 112.000

Or Shooter49 actually ran 12.700 at 109.000

Or Ginny C6 ran the 12.93 at exactly 108.00


No I dont think so....They probaly dont know what the exact times were..

Thats why they posted it like that...

Now think about it...

Thats 3 people who's actual hundreths data is off out of a list of only 8 people..


That means that 40 % of your list is inaccurate if your going by hundreths....


THE BOTTOM LINE IS C5 AND C6 GUYS THROW THE SLIPS AWAY AND FORGET THE HUNDRETHS


SO HOW CAN YOU TRY TO COMPARE THE CORVETTES THIS WAY...

YOUR SHORT LIST OF 8 ALREADY PROVES THAT THERES NO WAY IT WILL WORK ONCE ARE LIST GET INTO THE 20'S AND 30'S..

 

Well I did say that we should get the exact time slip numbers wherever "feasible".

If we cannot then we will just have to accept that as part of the "error margin". Same as track conditions, weather, track elevation, fuel load, tire pressure, driver skill, you get the picture.

But we should be as accurate as possible considering how many people are following.

But if one is willing I am sure that you could do a search of all the posts ever made by these 16 members and locate most of their times down to the third decimal place.

Either that or have them dig out their slips and post them.

BTW I have most if not all of my own time slips and can post them at will. Most people keep their "good" time slips and do not throw them away. I don't throw any of my own away unless it was an aborted run.

If your guys are relying on memory, well then how on earth can we get anything near an accurate assesment? A guy may have run a 13.01 after he added that Blackwing and Predator and not remember that particular time came after he had done so and record it as "bone stock."

 

EB2003...

If you wanted to do a comparison of it that way then please start your own thread and do it that way...

I did this to compare mn6 C5 against MN6 C6.....


Once you guys got more A4 C6 times I was gonna do a comparison of A4 C5 vrs A4 C6....


You are being immature when you put colors and wheel types into the same catergory as transmissions....



Color will not effect ET.....Neighter will stock wheel types( until proved otherwise )


But if you go look at the C5 1/4 mile page ...

Youll see that the 8 2.73 a4 C5's are averaging 13.53 at 103.8 mph

The 12 3.15 A4's are averaging 13.35 at 104.3 mph

The 14 mn6 3.42's are averaging 13.23 @ 107.3 mph

As you can see by the differance in mph..

The mn6 is a huge differance compared to a A4 transmission..

3 mph more on average is gained just through a mn6 transmission vrs the A4...

Why would you put them in the same class?????



IMAGINE IF YOUR LIST WAS 90 % A4 c6'S AND OUR LIST WAS 90% MN6 c5'S..


THERES A GOOD CHANCE THAT WE WOULD ET THE SAME AND THAT THE MN6 C5'S WOULD MPH HIGHER....

THEN PEOPLE WOULD GET A FALSE IDEA THAT THE C5 IS JUST AS FAST AS THE C6...


I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO SEE THAT STOCK FOR STOCK A MN6 C5 IS ONLY 3 TENTHS SLOWER THAN THE C6.....

LATER ON ILL PROVE THE SAME THING WITH THE A4 C5 AND A4 C6...



BUT DOING THEM ALL AT THE SAME TIME JUST MAKES NO SENSE.

 

Well I would ask you again. Why do you want to eliminate our A4 and A6 guys? Some of the quickest C6s out there happen to be automatics.

Why????? I'll tell you why.

Because you want to eliminate 4 of the quickest C6s on this board in order to skew the results and make it look like a C5 is a closer competitor to the C6 than it actually is.

But we can see right through that.

A C5 is nowhere close to competing with a C6 on a drag strip.


Every one of those A4 guys recorded quicker times than all but one of the quickest C5s on this board. But you want to eliminate them.

How are you going to do a drag racing comparison and eliminate automatics? Automatics dominate the drag strip.

 

I also have my best bone stock slip and best slip for each mod that I added...

But most people arent like us and spend all day arguing over corvettes..

Lots of them just went once to see what she would do and then through it away as well...

Id say it's probaly 50/50 on people who keep and throw the slips away.....


Eighter way......My way proved theres a 3 tenth and 2 mph differance..

and your way proved theres a 3 tenth a 2 mph differance



Now I ask you this question.....honestly...in your heart of hearts...do you think being 3 tenths and 2 mph quicker than the average bone stock c5 REALLY BRINGS YOU TO C5Z06 TERRITORY??? I DONT....I THINK YOU STILL HAVE TO WATCH OUT FOR A WELL DRIVEN C5 LET ALONE A C5Z06...2 MPH IS NOT THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERANCE....AND IM JUST TELLING IT LIKE IT IS WITH THE SAME NUMBERS WE BOTH POSTED FROM THIS COMPARISON


But both are list will continue to grow...There will be times when we are within two tenths of you and times when were 4 tenths away....

You'll always be faster.....

But we will ALWAYS be a lot closer to you than you are to a C5Z06...

I wont even bother posting there top 8...

An 12.0 vrs a 12.7 is just to much for me to bayer

 

I got the differance at 0.312 tenths and 2.62 mph...

You got the differance at 0.353 and 2.72 mph...

The differance is 0.041 and 0.10 mph......

I just decided to do the mn6 vrs mn6 for now...And to do the a4 vrs a4 some other time....Do you really think I would plot and double cross for a 0.041 ET gain and 0.10 MPH gain? I know your C6 is quicker...Im just proving the 50 crank HP is only good for 3 tenths...AND WE HAVE BOTH PROVEN IT

 

Actually my way shows it for what it really is. Closer to a 4 tenths difference and closer to 3 mph.



Nope, you're telling it like you want it to be. And the numbers don't support your summation. And we ain't 3 tenths quicker, we are .353 seconds quicker. Thats nearly 4 tenths. And we are 2.73 mph faster through the traps. Thats significant. What would you have to bolt on to pick up 2.73mph through the traps?

Here is one for you to ponder. There have already been C5 Z06s beaten by bone stock C6 Z51s.................................... ..........But I don't think I have ever heard of a bone stock C5 ever beating a C5 Z06 in any sort of race.


Thats 12.6 and we are just getting started. I don't even want to hear about a C5 unless its a Z06.

The stock C5 has run it's fastest so far at 12.6 for a record you said earlier.

That means that someone took 4 tenths off of your guys best average of 13.0.

Well its just a matter of time before someone takes 4 tenths off our best average of 12.6.

And that will put us at 12.2

 

Man..I got 3.1 as the differance and you got 3.5 as the differance...

Eighter way it's 3 tenths....

If some one ask you...Hey man How much quicker is the C6 than the C5..

Are you actualy gonna say 3.1 tenths or 3.5 tenths????

It's 3 tenths man....

And the mph is 2 mph??????

 

science dictates we do the following when rounding; consistently

If a number is 3.498293 and we want to round it to a whole number it would be 3; because of the .4. If it were 3.62348393 we would round it to 4. If it were 3.52389504 we would round it to 4. However if it were an even number like 4.52389504; we would round it to 4.

The rule is when you have a trailing five you always round your number up if it is odd and down if it is even.

When dealing with a bunch of slips; you should use these rules so they balence each other out in the long run. Always rounding up will create "artificially" inflated values.

JK

 

THE WAY I DID IT WITH MN6 VRS MN6 THERE IS ONLY A 3.1 TENTH DIFFERANCE BETWEEN YOUR C6 AND THE C5...


THAT WOULD BE ROUNDED TO 3 TENTHS PLAIN AND SIMPLE..

ILL GIVE YOU 3 TENTHS AND ROUND THE 2.63 TO 3 MPH..

EIGHTER WAY IT'S STILL ONLY 3 TENTHS AND 3 MPH DIFFERANCE BETWWEN A C5 MN6 AND C6 MN6...

A C5 CAN CLOSE THAT GAP WITH A VARARAM...


YOU GUYS ARE ALWAYS LIKE THE C6 WILL DO THIS AND THE C6 WILL DO THAT...

WHAT EVER MAN...

WHAT THE C6 DID DO IS ONLY BEAT THE C5 BY

3.53 TENTHS AND 2.73 (YOUR WAY) MPH...


THATS PRETTY SAD...

9 YEARS LATER AND YOU GET A 3 TENTH AND 3 MPH ADVATAGE?????

AND THEN YOU WANT TO COMPARE IT TO A C5Z06????

DO YOU REALIZE THAT EVEN IF SOME ONE GETS A 12.2 IN A C6...

YOU'LL ONLY BE 4 TENTHS QUICKER THAN THE FASTEST C5'S.....AND STILL 5 TENTHS SLOWER THAN THE FASTEST C5Z06.....THATS RIGHT..EVEN IF YOU GUYS DO BEAT YOUR 12.4 AND GET A 12.2..

you will STILL be closer to C5 performance than C6.......Why so much denial.......this has already proven how small the 3 tenth and 3 mph gap is....your record of 12.4 vrs our record of 12.6 has already proven how small the gap is as well....RIGHT NOW YOUR QUICKEST STOCK C6 OF 12.4 IS GONNA NEED A SHOT OF NOS TO RUN THE 11.7 THE QUICKEST C5Z06 HAS RUN....BUT EVEN WITH ALL THE FACTS YOU STILL CLAIM THAT A C5 IS NONTHING COMPARED TO THE C6 AND THAT YOU CAN HANG WITH THE C5Z???????????



The hole reason this has even started is all because of this....

The mn6 C5 was advertised through GM and all the different magazines to run 13.0-13.3 at 107-109 mph....

And it always has done exactlt what was claimed....every week we have someone run in this exact range..

And once or twice a month we have people trapping 110 or 111 and running 12.8-13.0....

It has performed exactly as promised..

I was very excited about the C6 when I first read the specs..

All the mags were saying around12.6 at 114 mph!!!!!!!!

I was gonna trade my C5 in for one...

Then one day at the grocery store I was reading a GM magazine that had ran the C6...

These are the magazines that get 12.9's out of camaros so I couldnt wait to see what they got out of the C6....

No matter what they did they couldnt beat a 13.1 at 109 mph...

And they quoted ( these are stock C5 times)

They removed the TM and went back to the same track and ran a 12.4 at 114 mph.....

Thats all they did was remove the TM....!!!!!! Like unleashing a Demon they said...

Till after 3-4 passes the rear end broke and they said now they know why GM put in so much TM....

So they through in a stronger rear end and did like 1-2 mods and were running 11's no problem...


After reading this I went to your section here and started reading what they were turning at the strip....13.0-13.3 AT 108-110 WAS WHAT i SAW

AND YOU GUYS HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE NOT POSTING THERE LOW TO MID 13'S ON YOUR LIST..

CAS MOST OF THE TIME THATS ALL I SEE...

WHERES YOUR 13.6 BTW EB2003?????

I WASNT ASHAMED TO POST MY 13.5........


The C5 has always given us exactly what was promised..Low 13's at 107-109 mph...

You C6 guys are not all running 12.6 at 114 mph...

Most of you can hardly trapp 110....


Take a look at your list of 9 C6's.....

These 9 C6's represent your creme of the crop for speed..

Now look at the mph's...

5 of the 9 are trapping 108-111 mph.......

COME ON MAN!!!!!!

5 OF YOUR 9 TOP DOG C6'S ARE TRAPPING 3-6 MPH UNDER WHAT WAS CLAIMED BY THE MAGS AND GM....


( OH AND NOW YOUR PROBALY GONNA WANT TO BREAK THEM DOWN INTO TRANSMISSION CLASSES TO TRY TO MAKE YOUR NUMBERS NOT LOOK SO BAD COMPARED TO A C5Z06?????)


NOW LOOK AT THE C5'S..


Quite a few of the 1-2 mph over what was claimed...



IVE SAID IT A THOUSAND TIMES AND ILL SAY IT AGAIN...

IF I KNEW THAT THE AVERAGE C6 COULD RUN A 12.6 AT 114 MPH ID HAVE ONE....

THATS WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSSED TO RUN?????

BUT IT TURNS OUT THAT IF YOUR C6 GETS ANYWERE NEAR 114 MPH YOUVE GOT ONE OF THE QUICKER ONES IN THE COUNTRY...

BUT THE AVERAGE C6 IS RUNNING A 13.0 AT 110 AND THE AVERAGE C5 IS RUNNING A 13.3 AT 107...



3 TENTHS AND 3 MPH IS NOT WORTH THE CHANGE TO ME...

A 5 MPH AND 5 TENTH DIFFERANCE LIKE WAS ADVERTISED WOULD HAVE MADE ME MAKE THE JUMP....

So far weve both proven that the differance isnt even a full 3 mph..

It's only like 2.7

How can a car that was suppossed to hit 114 only be 2.7 mph ahead of a car that was suppossed to hit 109????

SIMPLE...they blew the numbers up and gave the first C6's that got tested to unsuspecting car magazines with no tourque management....


Once the TM was put in the REAL production cars your one lucky SOB if you run a 12.8 at 112.....

As far as the C6 running or beating a Z06...

It could happen...

The TM dosent affect the car when it's acceleratin...

Only between shifts or while launching...

So if it's a short race wirth say only 1 shift...The TM will not be able to take it's toll the way it dose off launch at the track and going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to third....


Then you'd be comparing a 345 rwhp 3250 pound car against a 355 rwhp 3150 pound car...

ACHOTS ( street meaning drag strip of course )


But if there are a few shifts involved or ESPECIALY for the launch it's an easy kill for the C5Z.

If the C5 being close to the C6 in performance really up sets you that bad just go trade it in and get a C5Z06...

YOU'LL NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE C5 BEING CLOSE IN PERFORMANCE AGAIN....AN 11.8 UTTERLY DESTROYS A 12.6...( OR 12.4) FOR THAT MATTER.


12.4



-but are rims are an inch bigger

-but they have better drivers

-but weve only had 18 months

-but our tires arent as good

-but there arent enough of us yet

-but it's still summer air and soon the GOOD AIR will come

how about BUT our fastest C6 is slower than the fastest C5Z06 by 7 tenths and BUT were faster than the fastest C5 by 2 tenths.


THOSE ARE THE FACTS

lARON

 

There's really no point. We all know what those results would be.

 

Since you guys are all being so technical---I CONFESS---I rounded the et down to 12.7---I believe it was 12.74---and I rounded up to 109 from 108.67. You guys are worse then the I.R.S.--they at least allow rounding off to whole dollars.