3rd gear issues
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,208
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Ranger
I belong to a Corvette Club with a lot of C5s/C6s. No one there has ever had a shift linkage issue. But plenty have had a 2-3 gear-missing issue. Those get resolved by adjusting the hand position on the shifter.
And there have been plenty of gear grinding issues in trashed trannies that arise from missed shifts and poorly maintained clutch fluid.
90+% of 2-3 missed shifts result from driver issues. Some owners hate to hear that but it's true.
Think Tiger Woods practices putting? Think he reviews his grip when his putting is off?
So it seem pretty silly to me that owners refrain from practicing shifting and reexamining their hand position.
To me the best solutions are those found without a visit to the dealer.
Ranger
And there have been plenty of gear grinding issues in trashed trannies that arise from missed shifts and poorly maintained clutch fluid.
90+% of 2-3 missed shifts result from driver issues. Some owners hate to hear that but it's true.
Think Tiger Woods practices putting? Think he reviews his grip when his putting is off?
So it seem pretty silly to me that owners refrain from practicing shifting and reexamining their hand position.
To me the best solutions are those found without a visit to the dealer.
Ranger
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Roselle IL
Thanks for all the advice... My VIN comes up on the roof issue as well but no problems yet. Fortunately, I have both tops
I still will take it for my clutch as long as I'm on that VIN list too...
I still will take it for my clutch as long as I'm on that VIN list too...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,242
Likes: 8
Great thread. Very interesting to me, Ranger, that with all your experience, you still practice that routine so frequently! Makes it seem foolish that the rest of us who go to the drag strip don't.
Questions:
1. I agree completely about 3rd being in a 'neutral' position, and the tranny will self-center. However, when shifting very fast, as in when drag racing, will it have time to do this or do you 'pause' after getting out of 2nd for a split second?
2. Will aftermarket shifters effect this? What shifter do you use, Ranger?
3. When you practice this with the car off, you're stepping on / off the clutch as in a real run? Doing 50 sets a week doesn't take its toll on your clutch? Or does it not because the car is off?
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
Questions:
1. I agree completely about 3rd being in a 'neutral' position, and the tranny will self-center. However, when shifting very fast, as in when drag racing, will it have time to do this or do you 'pause' after getting out of 2nd for a split second?
2. Will aftermarket shifters effect this? What shifter do you use, Ranger?
3. When you practice this with the car off, you're stepping on / off the clutch as in a real run? Doing 50 sets a week doesn't take its toll on your clutch? Or does it not because the car is off?
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by cmb13
Great thread. Very interesting to me, Ranger, that with all your experience, you still practice that routine so frequently! Makes it seem foolish that the rest of us who go to the drag strip don't.
Questions:
1. I agree completely about 3rd being in a 'neutral' position, and the tranny will self-center. However, when shifting very fast, as in when drag racing, will it have time to do this or do you 'pause' after getting out of 2nd for a split second?
2. Will aftermarket shifters effect this? What shifter do you use, Ranger?
3. When you practice this with the car off, you're stepping on / off the clutch as in a real run? Doing 50 sets a week doesn't take its toll on your clutch? Or does it not because the car is off?
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
Questions:
1. I agree completely about 3rd being in a 'neutral' position, and the tranny will self-center. However, when shifting very fast, as in when drag racing, will it have time to do this or do you 'pause' after getting out of 2nd for a split second?
2. Will aftermarket shifters effect this? What shifter do you use, Ranger?
3. When you practice this with the car off, you're stepping on / off the clutch as in a real run? Doing 50 sets a week doesn't take its toll on your clutch? Or does it not because the car is off?
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
A driver that wants to improve needs to practice. Shifting is akin to putting in golf, serving in tennis, foul shots in BBall, or shooting in the SOF. It takes practice to maintain skills and a lot of practice to improve.
On your questions, my 2-3 shift is as fast as the 1-2 and 3-4.
I've alway run the stock shifter. Confirmed the decision by driving friends' Corvettes with various aftermarket shifters. Keeping in mind that it's really leg speed that governs the duration of the shift rather than arm speed, to me at least, an aftermarket shifter is prettey superfluous
Because none of the clutch parts are spinning (engine off), shifting practice doesn't harm clutch life. Just need to ensure oil is above 100; at that temp the tranny surfaces and fluid are warm too.
Ranger
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 887
Likes: 10
From: Ontario New York
Originally Posted by Ranger
Hi cmb13,
A driver that wants to improve needs to practice. Shifting is akin to putting in golf, serving in tennis, foul shots in BBall, or shooting in the SOF. It takes practice to maintain skills and a lot of practice to improve.
On your questions, my 2-3 shift is as fast as the 1-2 and 3-4.
I've alway run the stock shifter. Confirmed the decision by driving friends' Corvettes with various aftermarket shifters. Keeping in mind that it's really leg speed that governs the duration of the shift rather than arm speed, to me at least, an aftermarket shifter is prettey superfluous
Because none of the clutch parts are spinning (engine off), shifting practice doesn't harm clutch life. Just need to ensure oil is above 100; at that temp the tranny surfaces and fluid are warm too.
Ranger
A driver that wants to improve needs to practice. Shifting is akin to putting in golf, serving in tennis, foul shots in BBall, or shooting in the SOF. It takes practice to maintain skills and a lot of practice to improve.
On your questions, my 2-3 shift is as fast as the 1-2 and 3-4.
I've alway run the stock shifter. Confirmed the decision by driving friends' Corvettes with various aftermarket shifters. Keeping in mind that it's really leg speed that governs the duration of the shift rather than arm speed, to me at least, an aftermarket shifter is prettey superfluous
Because none of the clutch parts are spinning (engine off), shifting practice doesn't harm clutch life. Just need to ensure oil is above 100; at that temp the tranny surfaces and fluid are warm too.
Ranger
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by Ranger
Hi cmb13,
A driver that wants to improve needs to practice. Shifting is akin to putting in golf, serving in tennis, foul shots in BBall, or shooting in the SOF. It takes practice to maintain skills and a lot of practice to improve.
On your questions, my 2-3 shift is as fast as the 1-2 and 3-4.
I've alway run the stock shifter. Confirmed the decision by driving friends' Corvettes with various aftermarket shifters. Keeping in mind that it's really leg speed that governs the duration of the shift rather than arm speed, to me at least, an aftermarket shifter is prettey superfluous
Because none of the clutch parts are spinning (engine off), shifting practice doesn't harm clutch life. Just need to ensure oil is above 100; at that temp the tranny surfaces and fluid are warm too.
Ranger
A driver that wants to improve needs to practice. Shifting is akin to putting in golf, serving in tennis, foul shots in BBall, or shooting in the SOF. It takes practice to maintain skills and a lot of practice to improve.
On your questions, my 2-3 shift is as fast as the 1-2 and 3-4.
I've alway run the stock shifter. Confirmed the decision by driving friends' Corvettes with various aftermarket shifters. Keeping in mind that it's really leg speed that governs the duration of the shift rather than arm speed, to me at least, an aftermarket shifter is prettey superfluous
Because none of the clutch parts are spinning (engine off), shifting practice doesn't harm clutch life. Just need to ensure oil is above 100; at that temp the tranny surfaces and fluid are warm too.
Ranger
Originally Posted by C6RAPTOR
What???
Before you reply, please read this from another thread.
Originally Posted by Ranger
Here is my progression in the C6Z, after 500 passes in C5Zs:
On drag radials
1st pass: 12.79 MIR day 1 clutch pedal hung on launch
2d pass: 11.60 MIR day 1
3d pass: 11.70 MIR day 1
4th pass: 11.58 MIR day 1 figured out the need to manage coolant temp
5th pass: 11.31 MIR day 1
6th pass: 11.65 MIR day 1 clutch pedal hung on launch
7th pass: 11.38 Capitol day 2
8th pass: 11.36 Capitol day 2
9th pass: 11.28 Capitol day 2
10th pass: 11.20 Capitol day 2
I then ran 8 straight passes on stock tires.
On stock tires
1st pass: 11.48 MIR day 3
2d pass: 11.40 MIR day 3
3d pass: 11.34 Cecil day 4
4th pass: 11.50 Cecil day 4
5th pass: 11.58 Capitol day 5 street night, damp launch area
6th pass: 11.69 Capitol day 5 street night, damp launch area
7th pass: 11.38 Cecil day 6
8th pass: 11.31 Cecil day 6
On drag radials
1st pass: 12.79 MIR day 1 clutch pedal hung on launch
2d pass: 11.60 MIR day 1
3d pass: 11.70 MIR day 1
4th pass: 11.58 MIR day 1 figured out the need to manage coolant temp
5th pass: 11.31 MIR day 1
6th pass: 11.65 MIR day 1 clutch pedal hung on launch
7th pass: 11.38 Capitol day 2
8th pass: 11.36 Capitol day 2
9th pass: 11.28 Capitol day 2
10th pass: 11.20 Capitol day 2
I then ran 8 straight passes on stock tires.
On stock tires
1st pass: 11.48 MIR day 3
2d pass: 11.40 MIR day 3
3d pass: 11.34 Cecil day 4
4th pass: 11.50 Cecil day 4
5th pass: 11.58 Capitol day 5 street night, damp launch area
6th pass: 11.69 Capitol day 5 street night, damp launch area
7th pass: 11.38 Cecil day 6
8th pass: 11.31 Cecil day 6
So, if you sense some BS in my post(s), please be specific as to where. And I will try to explain more fully.
TIA,
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Jul 21, 2006 at 09:31 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,242
Likes: 8
I agree....C6Raptor, exactly which statement are you calling bs on? The whole post or one sentence of it???
Anyway, thanks for the answers, Ranger. I'll plan on practicing. I saw JoeG's fantastic performance at the challenge last month; he did do great and credits it to his shifting technique, from your practice techniques.
Interesting about the leg speed being the limiting factor; I didn't realize that.
One thing I've learned about drag racing in my 3 events at Moroso - there's a hell of a lot more to it than I ever expected!!!
Anyway, thanks for the answers, Ranger. I'll plan on practicing. I saw JoeG's fantastic performance at the challenge last month; he did do great and credits it to his shifting technique, from your practice techniques.
Interesting about the leg speed being the limiting factor; I didn't realize that.
One thing I've learned about drag racing in my 3 events at Moroso - there's a hell of a lot more to it than I ever expected!!!
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by cmb13
...Interesting about the leg speed being the limiting factor; I didn't realize that....
All that said, a good shifter with an M6/M12 still shifts faster than an A4/A6. But doing so takes practice.
Ranger
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 887
Likes: 10
From: Ontario New York
Originally Posted by Ranger
So you are popping the BS flag on what, exactly.
Before you reply, please read this from another thread.
I probably would not be running that sort of progression without understanding how to shift a manual tranny.
So, if you sense some BS in my post(s), please be specific as to where. And I will try to explain more fully.
TIA,
Ranger
Before you reply, please read this from another thread.
I probably would not be running that sort of progression without understanding how to shift a manual tranny.
So, if you sense some BS in my post(s), please be specific as to where. And I will try to explain more fully.
TIA,
Ranger
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,242
Likes: 8
That's what I remember seeing - that your car is stock. So, what's your feeling about the burnout? It seems to me that it would be hard enough on the front brakes, but absolutely devastating to the rear brakes, no?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by cmb13
That's what I remember seeing - that your car is stock. So, what's your feeling about the burnout? It seems to me that it would be hard enough on the front brakes, but absolutely devastating to the rear brakes, no?
Ranger
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 887
Likes: 10
From: Ontario New York
Originally Posted by shopdog
There's a single long shift rod that goes from the shifter mechanism back to the transmission. This rod has 2 bends in it. When you try to force a shift, it flexes and twists, which winds up pushing the shift forks inside the transmission out of position. This causes the shifter to feel like it has found the gear, when it actually hasn't.
I would suggest that a larger diameter rod would be more rigid, and less apt to twist and bend under hard shifting conditions. Perhaps one of the aftermarket shifter manufacturers will jump on this and start offering a stiffer shift rod.
In the meanwhile, you could have a shop custom fabricate a larger diameter rod. Remember that stiffness is primarily a function of moment of inertia, larger diameter has a greater effect than material properties. In other words, a 6 inch diameter wooden log is stiffer than a half inch steel bar, not because wood is a stronger material, but because the log has a larger moment of inertia due to its diameter.
A hollow rod will be almost as stiff as a solid one, and much lighter. Making the shift rod twice the diameter will make it about 4 times as stiff, and if it is hollow, it can even weigh less than the original rod.
PS, I agree with Ranger that you can learn to shift around this, but actually fixing the problem would be even better.
I would suggest that a larger diameter rod would be more rigid, and less apt to twist and bend under hard shifting conditions. Perhaps one of the aftermarket shifter manufacturers will jump on this and start offering a stiffer shift rod.
In the meanwhile, you could have a shop custom fabricate a larger diameter rod. Remember that stiffness is primarily a function of moment of inertia, larger diameter has a greater effect than material properties. In other words, a 6 inch diameter wooden log is stiffer than a half inch steel bar, not because wood is a stronger material, but because the log has a larger moment of inertia due to its diameter.
A hollow rod will be almost as stiff as a solid one, and much lighter. Making the shift rod twice the diameter will make it about 4 times as stiff, and if it is hollow, it can even weigh less than the original rod.
PS, I agree with Ranger that you can learn to shift around this, but actually fixing the problem would be even better.
http://www.3r-racing.com/parts_folde...ade_parts.html
Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
From: APPOMATTOX VIRGINIA
No problems 2nd to 3rd power shifting in my former 05 and my current 06. I shift with an open palm straight up into 3rd with no pressure to the right. If you apply right pressure you'll never be able to power shift the 2nd to 3rd shift. The centering mechanism in the shifter will take care of the move to the right so you shouldn't even think about it.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: KINGS PARK NY
Originally Posted by maddogbishop
I also agree. At first I thought there was something wrong at high rpm shifts. After using a little more finesse, I realized I was actually the problem. I seemed to be forcing the shifter in between 3rd & 5th. Now, at high rpm, I gently push the shifter almost straight & forward and it seems to hit third every time.
