OK, I installed my K&N aircharger intake today, so easy, even for me it only took 15-20 minutes

I only needed a screw driver and a 10mm wrench, my kind of product.

So, now I have Corsa Sports and an air intake.

I was thinking about doing headers and high flow cats, but emissions legality has me thinking twice, so I might just do a TUNE and see if I can get this car in to the low low 12s as is.

I have two different tuners to choose from.

One is LOCAL (within 1 hour from me) and they charge $500 for a tune + $200 for dyno time = $700

Sounds excessive to me?

The other tuner is not local, but will be 2hrs away for a week in September.

Their charge is $375 + $125 for the dyno rental = $500.

Now the advantages:

If I ever needed to flash back to stock, such as if I had to go in for service that required a computer update , the LOCAL guy is very close.
The other guy is about 1000 miles away and I would have to remove my computer and ship it.

Or if the dealer accidentally flashed me back to stock, the local guy could just reload my tune.

I was thinking of negotiating the price with the local guy to $500.

Other option is just to skip a tune?

Will it really provide that much of a gain?

Thanks,

Howard

 

Here is what i did

I bought EASE scanner tool http://www.obd2.com/scantool/scantool.htm
It is great
It will pull all the necessary data from your car ( as if you were dynoing it but even better because IT IS REAL WORLD DATA FROM DRIVING THE CAR UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS )
Then I bought my own copy of Ls2 edit
This way i cant get locked out of my ecm

Then ?I am working with one of the BEST tunners for our car
You take your EASE data and email to him and sends you the ls2 edit file to update your car
Pm me i will give you all the info

This Guy JR is the best !
He has been tuneing for a long time

 

burtonbl103 -

I am too lazy to do all that

Seriously, if I get a tune I just want somebody to do it and I just want to get in and drive.

Actually, there are tuners in NJ I have not contacted.

There is just NO WAY I can see spending $700 for a tune on a mildly modified car.

Howard

 

As you know in life, we often get what we pay for. With that said, every time I had my car dyno tuned (2 supercharged mustangs and my C6), I went with reputation. Ask around, get some info and go from there.

 

For me it is fun because i am a software Guy
So the more i can learn about my car the better it is for me

 

How far are you from Cartek

 

A quickie mail order tune could be right for you. It is really easy to do you would only have to take the BCM out of the car and mail it to the tuner.

However, you might want to consider a tuner who will not lock you out of your computer. It may also be a good idea to get a copy of your original stock program so that your BCM can be reflashed if necessary.

Then again you could also order a replacement BCM so that you could switch computers if necessary.

There is always another way to skin a cat

 

FYI, HP Tuners program is the most recent tune program out and from what I hear the best; I have it in my car and I can't tell it's there except when the fans come on early, or when i take off from a stop at a traffic lite-mannnnnnnnnn, ROCKET CITY! Is it worth it????????? Well, if the tune guy knows what he is doing, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. I too, was very concerned about the same thing, but once your car is tuned, if you need anything else done to the car by the dealer, just remind them that you had it dyno'd so they don't wipe out the program; my tuner said if that should ever happed by mistake, lets say, he would be able to reprogram it for a minimal charge-which would be well worth it anyway.
I was upfront with my service writer and service manager about everything including the rockers i'll be changing next week (1.7's-stock to 1.8's) with springs and rods. he just shook his head and said i don't want to hear it and laughed. I don't expect the actual parts i changed to be warranted but everything else will be.
you gotta work the dealer/customer relationship issue if you know what i mean. nothing's impossible. Good luck

 

What is an average HP gain for a good tune anyways?

Also how does it work? Sorry for the Newbie questions

 

howard, save you money on a tune right now, who knows where you will end up, you might do even more mods then you would want another tune unless you have your own software. port / polish your intake is where i would go next.

 

That would be my vote as well...I think he's within two hours of there (Garwood, NJ, exit 11 off the NJ Turnpike then exit 136 off the Garden State Parkway).
They helped me get my Z28 into the 11s and will be the only ones to work on my C6 if/when I decide the time is right to step it up.

 

The ECM has a series of tables that contain fuel and spark values. These are called maps. The ECM indexes into these tables using RPM, MAF, MAP, IAT, throttle position, etc read in from various engine sensors as indexes. The table value thus indicated is then read and used to control fuel volume and/or spark advance.

The factory maps are conservative, they have to work with rotgut gas, a wide spread of temperatures, a wide spread of atmospheric pressures (different altitudes), etc. So the engine makes less power than it would be capable of making if these values were optimized for performance.

What a tuner does is take a software tuning tool (any of the major tuning tools will do) and change these maps so they are more nearly ideal for performance, given good gas and good air. It isn't unusual to pick up 15-20 hp with a good tune.

There are also other things a tuner can change while poking about in the ECM. He can make the fan come on earlier and harder. He can raise the RPM limiter. He can turn off some emissions and safety related parameters. Etc. Under the right conditions, all of these changes can improve performance.

If you have an automatic transmission, there are a number of parameters a tuner can change which will adjust shift points, adjust shift firmness, etc. These can also improve performance (particularly 1/4 mile performance).

If you have made hardware changes to the engine or drivetrain, it is often necessary to retune the car to take proper advantage of these changes. For example, adding headers can improve cylinder scavenging, and that can make the car run lean. To protect the engine, and to make more power, a tuner needs to go in and make changes to the maps to richen up the mixture at certain RPM and load indexes to compensate for the effect of the headers.

There are a lot of numbers in the ECM maps that can be juggled to achieve various desired effects. It takes a tuner who knows his stuff to get real improvements, and avoid causing driveability problems. The particular tools he uses to achieve results are unimportant, the results are what matter, and that's still a function of the man wielding the tool, and not the brand of tool being used. Just as an old time mechanic wouldn't leave a screwdriver or wrench in your car after he tuned it, a modern tuner will not leave the tool he used to tune your car in the ECM when he is done.

As far as the car is concerned, it doesn't know or care what tool was used to alter the tuning maps in the ECM. For the most part, neither should you. There is only one issue where the tool used can matter. If your tuner uses LS2Edit, it will lock the ECM by default so that no one other than the original tuner can make future changes to your tune. You might need to make changes if you add hardware mods later (see comment on headers, for example). So this is an undesireable situation. HP Tuners software by default does not lock the ECM, so future tunes can be done by anyone, not just the original tuner. This is a more desireable result. Note that a tuner can override the defaults, ie he can unlock a LS2Edit tune, or lock a HP Tuners tune. But generally, tuners tend to go with the defaults of these two tools, and thus a tuner who uses HP Tuners is less likely to create future hassles for you than one who uses LS2Edit. Be sure to talk this over with the tuner you choose. I won't allow someone to hold me captive by locking a tune. Neither should you.

 

Thanks for all the responses.

bunk22 -

Only 2 supercharged Mustangs?

I have been through five and 4 different tuners:

2 2003 Cobras, 1 Powerdyne 5.0, 1 Vortech 347, and 1 Novi 2000 on a 4.6.

c6eddie -

They were the last one to come to mind and not more than 2 hours

burtonbl103 -

I am almost computer illiterate

TommyD -

I think a 2nd ECM is a little much for such a mildly modded car, the tuner should save the stock files, at least I would certainly hope so.

I really don't want to ship my ECM, just scares me?

purpleheart -

Good info.

I will most certainly buy my service manager and tech lunch each and every time.

cbrf4i1 -

The one tuner does that for $300, is there much of a gain?

LS1LT1 -

I have to call them, I remember early on when I had my Viper GTS on stock tires their C6 blew me away on a run with an 11.5 on slicks.

shopdog -

Nobody is locking my ECM

The only advantage is it cannot be accidentally reflashed back to stock.

Howard

 

Your best bet would be to find someone from your area (on this forum) who is willing to share a copy of HPTuners software with you. Then you can order a $175 mail order tune from a vendor (see the C6 Scan & Tune forum), have them email you the file, then use the HPTuners software to load it into your ECM. That way you don't have to remove the ECM from your car, and you have the flexibility to change the tune later on.

Another option is to buy a hand-held tuner such as the Predator.

 

I'm like your mini-me then. I had one Powerdyne 5.0 but used two different Powerdynes (the BD-11A and the mighty XB-1A ) and my 03 Cobra with ported blower and associated mods.

I had a decent tune on C6 but without the aid of a dyno, it was a bit off in areas; to much timing here and there, not the perfect air-fuel in the mid-range, etc. On the dyno, my new tuner was able to perfect everything. Of course being tuned on a load bearing dyno helped simulate road conditions so I had that going for me

 

I paid $450.00 for mine and only got 10 whp out of it. Now I'm thinking of adding headers and I'll need another tune with that.

 

10hp for only $450 is a pretty good deal actually. Lots of people spend double that amount on an exhaust system and only get 2rwhp out of it.

And if you get the headers put on at the same shop that did your first tune, in most cases they'll retune it for free, or at least for a much lower rate than the initial tune.

 

I'd take the 2nd option - guy further away

 

for the info
In plain laymen's terms what is the downside to this "Dyno Tune"? Even something as minor as reduced gas mileage or shorten engine life. There is always a sacrifice and being here in California come smog time will this cause havoc when smog testing time eventually comes up?

 

There really is no downside, because the tuner is going to be able to set the air/fuel ratio and timing curve to the perfect spot for your particular engine with the fuel you're running. And in some cases the dyno tune can actually help spot minor problems. I've had two cars dyno tuned and in both cases we found a problem that needed to be fixed before the tuning could be completed. The first car was a 95 LT1 Firebird, and we found the engine was running way too lean and we traced it to a crack in the rubber piece going into the throttle body. And on my C5, on the first dyno run we found it was pulling out 7 degrees of timing, which we traced to the OEM platinum plugs having no more platinum on them (even with only 32k on them!) and as a result the gaps were all much too high (.070 to .080!) The funny thing was, with both cars, they felt like they were running perfectly to me, but it was the dyno tuning session, along with the scan tools, which helped me get both cars running better.