160 T-stat installed
Drifting
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From: az
Originally Posted by dave pawlowski
Just to add more confusion, (or clarification) the service manual calls the housing the thermostat is located inside the "water pump INLET" !
Can someone with an IR thermometer monitor the temps at both inlet and outlet during a warmup cycle? This might settle it.
Can someone with an IR thermometer monitor the temps at both inlet and outlet during a warmup cycle? This might settle it.
that is right, water going into water pump through stat, not out.
Drifting
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From: az
Originally Posted by HITMAN99
Talk about fighting to the end to make your point!
You two are saying EXACTLY the same thing, as follows:
Shopdog: "...it should be immediately obvious that the inlet is the hose coming from the radiator (the one you call upper)..."
Cbrf4i1: "...06 service manual page 6-622, 6-641 & 6-644 refers to the driver side hose (the one that i been calling upper, since it is attached to the radiator higher then the passanger hose) as "radiator inlet hose".
You two are saying EXACTLY the same thing, as follows:
Shopdog: "...it should be immediately obvious that the inlet is the hose coming from the radiator (the one you call upper)..."
Cbrf4i1: "...06 service manual page 6-622, 6-641 & 6-644 refers to the driver side hose (the one that i been calling upper, since it is attached to the radiator higher then the passanger hose) as "radiator inlet hose".
Last edited by cbrf4i1; Oct 30, 2006 at 09:51 AM.
Drifting
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From: Annandale VA
Instead of arguing about the words, and the definition of the words, I will repeat what I said before ---- the purpose of the radiator is to cool the water, so once the thermo has opened up, the water going in will be hotter than the water coming out.
I went to the parking lot a few minutes ago, started up my car and felt for myself. The hose connected to the thermo housing stayed cool, while the hose connected to the other side of the water pump got progessively hotter. Even after the DIC showed 182 degrees for over 5 minutes, the hose connected to the thermo housing was much cooler, and I could comfortably hold it in my hand. The other "upper" hose was quite hot, could only hold it for a few seconds comfortably.
So, at least as far as I can tell, Cbr4fi1 is correct. However, whichever way the coolant flows, the purpose of the thermo is to keep the water inside the engine until it reaches operating temps, and the thermo opens.
I went to the parking lot a few minutes ago, started up my car and felt for myself. The hose connected to the thermo housing stayed cool, while the hose connected to the other side of the water pump got progessively hotter. Even after the DIC showed 182 degrees for over 5 minutes, the hose connected to the thermo housing was much cooler, and I could comfortably hold it in my hand. The other "upper" hose was quite hot, could only hold it for a few seconds comfortably.
So, at least as far as I can tell, Cbr4fi1 is correct. However, whichever way the coolant flows, the purpose of the thermo is to keep the water inside the engine until it reaches operating temps, and the thermo opens.
Drifting
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From: az
Originally Posted by HITMAN99
Instead of arguing about the words, and the definition of the words, I will repeat what I said before ---- the purpose of the radiator is to cool the water, so once the thermo has opened up, the water going in will be hotter than the water coming out.
I went to the parking lot a few minutes ago, started up my car and felt for myself. The hose connected to the thermo housing stayed cool, while the hose connected to the other side of the water pump got progessively hotter. Even after the DIC showed 182 degrees for over 5 minutes, the hose connected to the thermo housing was much cooler, and I could comfortably hold it in my hand. The other "upper" hose was quite hot, could only hold it for a few seconds comfortably.
So, at least as far as I can tell, Cbr4fi1 is correct. However, whichever way the coolant flows, the purpose of the thermo is to keep the water inside the engine until it reaches operating temps, and the thermo opens.
I went to the parking lot a few minutes ago, started up my car and felt for myself. The hose connected to the thermo housing stayed cool, while the hose connected to the other side of the water pump got progessively hotter. Even after the DIC showed 182 degrees for over 5 minutes, the hose connected to the thermo housing was much cooler, and I could comfortably hold it in my hand. The other "upper" hose was quite hot, could only hold it for a few seconds comfortably.
So, at least as far as I can tell, Cbr4fi1 is correct. However, whichever way the coolant flows, the purpose of the thermo is to keep the water inside the engine until it reaches operating temps, and the thermo opens.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: ca
Originally Posted by shopdog
. If you were to measure the temperature of the hose connected to the thermostat housing and compare it to the hose bringing water back from the radiator to the water pump (I just went out and did this with an IR non-contact thermometer), you'd find that what you've been calling the lower hose is about 30F hotter than the hose you've been calling the upper hose. (The radiator is a crossflow design, so notions of upper and lower don't have much meaning with respect to it.)
Last edited by paulee; Nov 2, 2006 at 06:56 PM.
Racer
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The sensing end (the tail in this case) of the thermostat points in the opposite direction to the flow. The coolant exits thru the thermostat into the radiator hose. If anyone doubts this take the hose off the thermostat housing and run the motor.
Drifting
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From: az
Originally Posted by C64BOB
The sensing end (the tail in this case) of the thermostat points in the opposite direction to the flow. The coolant exits thru the thermostat into the radiator hose. If anyone doubts this take the hose off the thermostat housing and run the motor.
sorry sir, you have it back wards, base on the names that GM used on these hosed (pages that i provided previous post in the 06 service manual) and now there a now a few others that confirm with me the stat end of the hose is cooler which is positive prove that cool coolant flow into the stat not out if you don't believe the service manual. or better yet next time you get done driving your car feel the temp on both hoses and discover the truth.
coolant in engine > water pump outlet > driver side/upper hose/GM term "radiator hose inlet" > radiator > passager side/lower hose/GM term "radiator outlet hose > stat houseing / stat /GM term "water pump inlet" > engine.
Last edited by cbrf4i1; Oct 30, 2006 at 01:44 PM.
Safety Car
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by HITMAN99
... The other "upper" hose was quite hot, could only hold it for a few seconds comfortably.
would this hose dissapate enough heat to 'soak' the maf, or raise the intake air temp ?
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Drifting
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From: az
Originally Posted by Zig
would this be the hose under the intake ducting. is the maf directly above the hose ?
would this hose dissapate enough heat to 'soak' the maf, or raise the intake air temp ?
would this hose dissapate enough heat to 'soak' the maf, or raise the intake air temp ?
Safety Car
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by TommyV
Fully warm using Raytek IR therm: Coolant hose coming off t-stat, 125 deg. Hose on drivers side, 177 deg.
Drifting
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From: Annandale VA
Originally Posted by Zig
would this be the hose under the intake ducting. is the maf directly above the hose ?
would this hose dissapate enough heat to 'soak' the maf, or raise the intake air temp ?
would this hose dissapate enough heat to 'soak' the maf, or raise the intake air temp ?
In my opinion, it could easily warm up the MAF. Since the IAT is located inside the MAF, it could warm it up as well.
How much? That is debatable. (I know how much you like a debate!)
Safety Car
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by HITMAN99
How much? That is debatable. (I know how much you like a debate!)
Originally Posted by HITMAN99
In my opinion, it could easily warm up the MAF. Since the IAT is located inside the MAF, it could warm it up as well.
i wonder how much of an impact 'insulating' the upper rad. hose would have on intake coolant temps. as determined by the iat. would insulating the hose allow one to use the 'stock' therm. but have a lower than 'stock' intake temp?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Sandy Eggo Calif.
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12, '16
Originally Posted by Zig
out of curiosity, what type of reading do you get from the maf housing when fully warm ?
Drifting
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From: Annandale VA
Originally Posted by Zig
woulld this help explain why some are reporting better times with a cooler therm. ?
i wonder how much of an impact 'insulating' the upper rad. hose would have on intake coolant temps. as determined by the iat. would insulating the hose allow one to use the 'stock' therm. but have a lower than 'stock' intake temp?
Insulating the upper radiator hose should help, certainly can't hurt. I thought about taping one of those "freezer packs" to the underside of the MAF --- that oughta cool things down! I also read on another thread that there is a vendor selling a heat soak reduction kit for $100 or so.
Safety Car
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by HITMAN99
Yes, it would explain part of it. Several of the threads that both you and I have been following have mentioned that IAT is one of the parameters that will result in timing being pulled. If your operating temps are 20 degrees cooler, the temp of the radiator hose is also 20 degrees cooler, and that could minimize the heat soak of the MAF. The second parameter is the coolant temp itself ---- if it gets over 186 degrees, that also results in timing being pulled.
Insulating the upper radiator hose should help, certainly can't hurt. I thought about taping one of those "freezer packs" to the underside of the MAF --- that oughta cool things down! I also read on another thread that there is a vendor selling a heat soak reduction kit for $100 or so.
Insulating the upper radiator hose should help, certainly can't hurt. I thought about taping one of those "freezer packs" to the underside of the MAF --- that oughta cool things down! I also read on another thread that there is a vendor selling a heat soak reduction kit for $100 or so.
Safety Car
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by TommyV
Show me exactly where you want the reading and I'll check it for you.
lower rad. hose.
therm. housing.
upper rad. hose.
driver side of maf.
top of maf.
passenger side of maf.
top of intake ducting prior to maf.
temp. readout according to DIC.
sorry, if that was more than you were expecting.
Le Mans Master
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From: Monroe Township New Jersey
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
St. Jude donor in memory of jpee '14
Originally Posted by Zig
since i don't think it would be overly difficult using the IR sensor, i'd be interested in the following.
lower rad. hose.
therm. housing.
upper rad. hose.
driver side of maf.
top of maf.
passenger side of maf.
top of intake ducting prior to maf.
temp. readout according to DIC.
sorry, if that was more than you were expecting.
lower rad. hose.
therm. housing.
upper rad. hose.
driver side of maf.
top of maf.
passenger side of maf.
top of intake ducting prior to maf.
temp. readout according to DIC.
sorry, if that was more than you were expecting.
It would also be very interesting to see what temps the Z06 registers on the same parts. The Z06 has a much larger open grill area than our car. I would guess that the temps would be lower.
Last edited by Tommy D; Oct 30, 2006 at 10:05 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,253
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From: Sandy Eggo Calif.
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12, '16
Originally Posted by Zig
since i don't think it would be overly difficult using the IR sensor, i'd be interested in the following.