You have great under the curve area. i.e. a great flat torque curve.

High HP are for bench and bar races only, I will take a FLAT big area under the curve any time.

HP sells mods and cars, Torque wins races.

 

Here's an A6 with LG Pro Long Tubes, 160 stat, and a K&N inlet. I got 360/362, your manual should be 15 hp higher.

 

I understand what you mean, many here have stated how we use Dynos to make ourselves feel good ;-) But in your case and mine (I posted something similar) we are trying to figure where the car is. I believe I found two things to be my problems and you might relate: 1 Heat of the engine when dyno was done (straight from the drive there, at 200+ oil temp) & 2. The gasoline that I was using, until I dyno'ed I didn't realize that the gas I use has 10% ethanol, even if it is 93 octane gas, so I will be going to another station in the area and making sure I check these before my next dyno...

That way I can make sure my car is performing as good as it should.

Best regards and good luck,
Luis

 

Glenn you really need to get that car tuned. You are leave a bunch of power on the table. I don't have a scanner but I took a picture of my dyno runs. This runs where about 6 months apart on my local dyno while I had my tune done by Doug at LAPD. It gives me a good before and after picture using similiar temps and humidity.




This first picture shows the gains across the rpm range. Remember I only have the Vararam and a tune.



This second picture show the A/F from the baseline to the final tune. If you notice the A/F is not a flat line. Each engines is a little different and Doug at LAPD worked out the A/F where I got the best gains. There is still a bit more that can be had as we ran out of time.

If you notice that even with headers you are only at best getting about 10 more than me. I know you feel you are close but find someone who can tune that puppy. You should be 20 more than myself.

 

I'm always on the fence when it comes to getting it tuned. I sent my dyno pulls to Charlie ($100 mail order tune) and he said my A/F's were close enough and declined to do a tune. I've read of people picking up a lot with the tune, like you did, and others that only picked up 2 hp. It looks like your stock A/F's were way off, mine before and after look good.

 

The only reason I made the comment is because you have the headers and I would expect a much bigger gain, at least in the 370 range.

Hopefully I will be adding Headers to mine sometime in the next month or so and I'll head to the dyno shop and check it with the current tune. Unless I can talk Doug to coming up to Seattle to visit family and tune my car I have no idea when I will be able to adjust the tune for the headers.

 

Remember, I'm running an automatic. Plus the A6 dynos even under A4's because there is no 1 to 1 gear. I was 334 stock, so I picked up 26 rwhp.

 

Bingo. I think you found the cause.

 

While this may be the problem, how do you cure it if there are no stations without ethanol in the gas? It looks to me as if more stations/gas companies are going in that direction.

 

Might be time to start running 100 octane.

 

A mail order tune is not a real tune!.. get to a dyno with someone who can properly tune your car.. in the end you get what you pay for..

 

While the 10% ethanol thing could be an issue I don't think it should result in substantially different results than if he was using the normal 5% that most have right now.
On a stock internal (bolt ons only) C6 the injectors should be more than adequate to handle that and as long as one is using a quality/name brand premium fuel a knowledgable tuner would know how to compensate for the potential differences IMO.


100%

 

Normally I would not know what to do, what I will be doing from now on is going into another county (about 5 minute drive for me) for gas...they don't use ethanol in Goochland county (or so I am told :-) )

Let me know if you do find other options (besides buying Torco all the time ;-) )

Regards,
Luis

 

The baseline with Vararam, LG headers, ported intake and Magnaflow catback was 342HP/353TQ. Awful.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...eDynoSheet.jpg[/QUOTE]

Talked to my tuner via email today. Maybe got some questions answered. Thoughts anyone?
Here's his response with my initial inquiry on top:

Alvin,
I've talked to several Corvette owners about my Dyno on Monday. Everybody is in agreement that my numbers are 30-40 HP and TQ low.
The 342HP we came up with on the initial run are total stock numbers with other cars and with headers and throttle body they are getting 360. With the tune the numbers should be 370-380.

Do you think the DynoJet is out of calibration? Or is it with my car? Or did you leave some HP on the table? My initial reacton is that the car is much stronger, however.
Enjoyed meeting you.

________________________________________ ________________________________________ ________________________________________ _________________
Hey Bob,

Honestly your results weren't terrible to me, but the definitely where not strong. I'm basing that on the GTO's we have done here with the LS2 engine. There are a couple issues that can be to blame.

1. Car not broken in yet. 1700 miles
2. Dyno not broken in yet. The dyno has only been in operation for 2 weeks now and the shop and I have been talking about how it may still be a bit tight. My personal Z06 was a little low on power and I did a LS1 today that was also a bit low on power there.
3. The way they are tying down the cars. They ratchet the cars pretty tightly which doesn't allow for the car to center up on the first chance it gets to roll. The other dyno we use the guys leave the cars a bit loose so the car straightens.. then we stop the car and tighten it down good and tight. IF the car is off by a degree or two you can imagine how it would affect numbers.

If you would like I'd be glad to put yours on the other dyno we use. It has been my experience that the other dyno is a bit optimistic and the one you used is a bit pessimistic. I will be tuning at the other dyno tomorrow. If you'd like I can get you on say at 3:30. I will not charge you for doing this however you will need to pay the dyno operator for his time. I wish the dyno was mine so I could give away the time for free in cases like this. I'll also double check the tune while we are in there just in case we need to tweak something however I was very meticulous doing the tune and it should be spot on. Remember how I did 2 back to back pulls just to double check to make sure the car would stay right.


I will say that honestly I could have probally gotten an extra 3 rwhp in the tune but it has been my experience to set the cars up a touch fat (12.8) so that they lean out and run best on the street. I guess you can say the tune is agressive but safe and with the street in mind.

Let me know about tomarrow. I have no problem putting hte car back up on the dyno.


Thank you,
Alvin

 

Hi,

I am the one that tuned this car. My name is Alvin (search for my name on this forum, really popular especially with C4 guys) and I've been working for PCMforless for almost 7 years now. I've done plenty of LS1, LS2, and even showed Bob a few LS7's I've done. Admittedly I have not had a LS2 vette come by but I have done a boatload of GTO's, TBSS's etc. The only C6's I've done have been all Z06's. In fact I overlayed Bob's graphs with about 10 other LS2 equipped cars just to show him how his was comparing to the others I've done. You can check my website www.pcmforless.com to check my credentials. I also have tuned one of (if not the) countries fastest NA bolt-on GTO.

This dyno was done on a Dynojet at a shop I just started doing sublet work on. It became operational about 1.5 weeks ago. So far there have been less than probally 30 cars on it.

Earlier in the week I did my personal C5 Z06 on this same dyno and it too was down a bit of power. Today we did a LS1 with GM's ASA cam and it was also down a bit of power.

I believe this dyno has some breaking in to do. I also believe the shop is tying the cars down a bit too tight before we center the car by rolling them first on the dyno. I am also thinking that this dyno needs to be ventilated a little more properly as it is not hot but the exhaust is against a wall.

I've offered Bob a chance to come down and pull his car on the dyno I normally work on tomorrow. It is also a Dynojet 224 however my personal Z06 dynos quite a bit better on it than the one we used Monday for Bob's.

I personally wouldn't beat yourself up on dyno numbers. My own Z06 doesn't put down a great number but it definitely out runs the hell out of some higher dynoing cars at the track. A dyno is a tuning tool and I'm mostly concerned with as a tuner that the AFR is set and flat to something safe and appropriate for the application and ignition timing has been experimented with so that we know we are at a point that makes the most power with each particular car safely. Ultimately I'm concerned with making the car go as fast as possible on the street or strip.


Also, I'm a fair guy. If Bob isn't confortable or happy with the service I provided I will be glad to return the car to stock and issue a refund.


Alvin
704-307-4227
PCMforless

 

a whole, whopping, 3 rwhp more? what can I say? I've already been told on page 2 of this thread that your numbers are just a little off. So maybe this is the extent of improvement potential. Or maybe not....

 

always more to almost every story. good post, Alvin. And I agree...WAY TOO MUCH emphasis on dyno numbers. How does it run on the street? Can't tell you how many times I've seen "dogs" on a dyno roller simply rip the street/strip up in the real world. The road load factor is hard to duplicate. Keep it safe in the tune, and then have fun on the road!

 

update,

If you remeber I said that I had my personal car on this new dyno last Monday. Well, last night I put my car on the dyno that I have been using for around 4 years now in the Charlotte area. BAM! 10 more peak hp, 12-14 more in some spots. Let me go ahead and note that I've worked on dynojets all across the country. I have never seen a variation more than say 3-5 hp.

I've got a Z06 to do monday in the AM and then head back over to the shop with the new dyno to handle a fast system on a mustang. Before the Mustang goes up the shop owner wants to put my car back on the dyno (3rd time this 2 weeks) and see if it backs up what it did on the 5th.

Honestly I think one is a half full type of dyno and the other is a half empty. Regardless I think biggest thing people should look for is the before after. IS the AFR good? Did the car pick up power? Was a few different timing tried? If so you are good to go. The actual number is relatively meaningless.

 

I have Hurricane, 170, Kooks LT 1 3/4, Corsa Sports on A6. I didn't base ine but when tuned the first pull was 351 and when done 370HP and 371tq. The tuner said stock is 330-335 from other cars he has done.
I was stoked

 

That thermostat should have added at least 15hp.