You missed the most salient point of what you read:

"The higher the spread between the bottom number and the top number the more VI improvers are relied on for maintaining the viscosity. Better to keep the numbers closer."

Let's see, although I never stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but do work with fluid mechanic PhDs that also are car enthusiasts, it seems that the difference between 10-30 and 0-30 is closer for 10-30... Or do you think someone needs to be a math major to subtract?

And my point was that the military does not use 5 or 0 weight oil in hot climates. You disproved that exactly how?

 

You don't seem to be grasping the difference between a good synthetic and regular old oil. Synthetics use few if any viscosity improvers because they don't need them. The military, as a general rule doesn't use synthetic oil in it's ground vehicles.

As specialized a Phds need to be, you would be better off talking to a tribologist. There isn't much relationship between fluid mechanics and tribology except they both involve fluids.

 

I won't even tell you guys how much discussion I can get going on the Ford forums when I tell them how I have had zero wear and zero problems for 5 years with a 550 hp nitrous motor when using only 5W-20 synthetic oil. And I've had it apart twice to check it over. The DOHC valve gear needs lube quick on a cold start, 0W-20 or 5W-20 is needed for these motors. I routinely run it to 8,000 rpm (when it is warm) with the 5W-20. This motor will never see anything thicker than 5W-20, because it doesn't need it.

Joe

 

Another voice in the wilderness heard from . Here's the bottom line: 0, 5, or 10 are preferred by some people for reasons that are relevant to them. And apparently 20W on the other end. It's you car, your money, your life. For me, that's enough for this thread.

 

0W30 is an oil recommended by Chevrolet (in addition to 5W and 10W30).
Read the owners manual.

 

Nowhere does it say 0W is "recommended" for "severe conditions, i.e., extreme cold". Mobil does say "0W30 is especially suitable for extreme conditions, where conventional oil often cannot perform" and "0W-30 delivers the energy-conserving formulation that flows quickly to critical engine parts, even in extremely cold weather." I don't understand what you say because you have your head too far up your xxx to make any sense of what you read. Everybody else doesn't have any problem understanding the links, why can't you?

0W30 will work just as well as 5W or 10W30 in high temps and due to "traffic conditions" (which I'm assuming you're implying causes higher oil temps, not sure what you're trying to say with "ambient"). Also, I don't know who this "many" person is, but he gets credited with saying a lot.

Nice link...the smart guys are saying the same thing I'm saying, and they have the facts to back it up too. Especially Mitch Alsup, after lots of data and graphs, he says: "you will be fine with xW30 of any modern synthetic". His analysis was based purely on the "30" number. The 0W, 5W, or 10W had no impact other than for him to say the 0W will reduce engine wear on initial start up...hmmm, I've heard that somewhere. And Mitch also says: "Many may have noticed that NASCAR race engines are now using 0W30". Good enough for NASCAR, good enough for me...and NASCAR has some truly horrible "traffic conditions".

Information you state you heard someone say with no proof as to the veracity is hearsay...go back to Law 101. However, when someone says they heard from "many" or "others" or "they" without naming the exact person, it's typically . You choose.

This is from your link:
"Synth Oils do not rely as much on special Viscosity Index Improver additives and will experience little permanent viscosity loss."
Thanks for finding that little gem as it further supports the use of Mobil 1 0W30.
And this from your Ferrari link above from one of Mitch Alsup's post:
"Then there is the old wives tale of the Viscosity improvers (that increase the spread between the number infront of the 'W" and the number after the 'W') having low shear strength. Modern VI oils have excellent ratings on tests designed to ferret out whether the shear strength is adequate. See the HTHS oil rating on the data sheet."
You'll find more about HTHS in the ACEA link I gave above.
But this one sentence from your paragraph above shows you still aren't getting it:
"Any lighter weight will flow well in hot weather."
At the ambient temperatures in hot weather on up to the operating temps of the engine, the xW part has nothing to do with the viscosity of the three 0W30, 5W30, and 10W30 oils. The "30" part tells you the viscosity and since they are all "30"s, they all have about the same viscosity...looking at the product data sheets reveals they all have about the same viscosity. If you look at this chart from SAE J300:
http://www.infineum.com/information/...sity-2004.html
you'll see the "W" classification is obtained from tests conducted at temps ranging from -10 to -40*C (26 to -40*F). The xW number has no relevance at 100*F or 250*F. Even though an oil has a lower number for its' W rating doesn't make it a thinner oil at 100*F or 250*F.

Every application has different requirements. I work for the DOD too and in particular deal with oil of all types so I know a thing or two about MilSpecs and oil. We have all kinds of oil specs for all kinds of different equipment. We have some equipment that uses "oil" that consists of 95% water. Using your logic, I guess that means we should all switch to water for our crankcase fill.

The links I posted are not manufacturers "claims", they are data from actual tests..."factual reality".

Your experience is as relative to this discussion as a drop of water is to the ocean...meaningless. You have no meaningful data and no tests under controlled conditions, you don't even understand the data from SAE J300.

Wow!!! You can't really believe that. Are you accusing Mobil (and other oil companies) of making up a bunch of BS numbers??? The numbers in their "Product Data Sheets" are from tests performed IAW SAE J300. Any of their competitors could easily sniff out any BS numbers and trash Mobils' reputation...not to mention class action lawsuits from consumers that didn't get what they paid for. You're really grasping at straws now.

I haven't flame you yet, but I can if you want.
And for what it's worth, I'd rather be a know-it-all, conceited *** than a dumb ***.
Seriously, you came out with a very strong opinion based on zero facts as a first post to this thread. Your opinion was wrong so I posted a response to the original poster with facts without ever mentioning you or your post. You posted the first "flame". You are the one that continued in the face of overwhelming evidence and irrefutable facts to maintain your "opinion". (You're a lawyer, so that doesn't really surprise me.) The original poster deserved facts/truth, not opinion. I considered my first post to be righting a wrong, you can call it flaming or whatever else you want.

Simply the stupidest thing you've said yet. Working with PhDs doesn't make you any smarter nor me any less knowledgeable.

 

Your "knowledge" of law is laughable. Simply the fact that you would take the time for your response says a lot about you, too. What do you do "working for the DoD? Change oil on Hummers?

 

So good, it's not hearsay then...at least you admit it's

One response deserves another. Pot...meet kettle.

My job with the DOD involves going into hazardous duty conditions to provide technical assistance to the military on mission degrading equipment casualties, including during war. Even though I'm a civilian, I was given a Desert Shield/Desert Storm medal as we were right there side by side with the military in combat zones. I was there for almost half the war, helped put the USS Princeton back together after a mine hit, and all my efforts combined saved the DOD/taxpayers in excess of $2 million but more importantly, got critical assets back in action quickly. One job I spent 3 days straight on with no sleep in 100*+F heat guiding a job that normally takes 7-10 days. I'm especially proud of being on the team putting the Princeton back together...we were suppose to fix her up just so she could "limp" home but when we finished, she was certified at full power and steamed home proudly. I could have refused the assignments but didn't...I didn't feel it was right to work with the military in the safety of stateside and then abandon them when things got hard. I've been to the Persian Gulf twice during the present war guiding an underwater repair that had never before been attempted. I have plenty of credentials/accolades over my 25 year career I'm proud of and worked hard for. I haven't denigrated your service in Vietnam and respect your service to our country. I certainly thought you were a little more patriotic than this, my mistake. This has gone from stupid to disgusting.

 

what abut 10-60 oil ?
A local garage recommend their race oil brand, cant remember the name
but 10-60 i remember

Could i use this ?


TIA


Rune

 

I agree with your last line. And I would suggest you develop a sense of humor, as my understanding is that you are a ME, so the Hummer oil change was simply a joke trying to inject a bit of humor into a subject you have become obsessive over. I am not an engineer, nor a techie. Opinions were asked for initially, and that is what I supplied. You attacked my opinions, not simply disagreed with them. To say that you learn nothing from working with highly educated and knowledgeable scientists is to say you learned nothing in engineering school by interaction with your professors. I never flamed you, nor called you a name, simply disagreed. I added two links--not to support my position, nor attack yours, simply because I thought they were interesting.

I was, obviously, not aware of your service and would be the last person on this forum to denigrate honest and faithful service to our country. I didn't just support combat in Vietnam, I flew combat missions. However, that is irrelevant to the discussion.

With respect to hearsay, you are simply wrong. I clearly gave you the correct category: operating on information and belief. In a court of law, that identifies unsubstantiated, but credible, testimony and is entirely admissable. So are various forms of hearsay, by the way, under something called the exception rule. However, that is immaterial.

As I said, I think the discussion has vectored well off course and was content to let my involvement drop. As you evidently felt the need to respond, so did I. This, however, ends my interest in the thread, although not the topic. I again suggest you lighten up. This forum is supposed to be fun--and about different opinions. Shall we talk about Z-51 vs stock next? Seems that gets a bit out of hand--and obsessive, as well. One thing that you learn early in combat is that if you attack, expect consequences. I wish you well.

 

No. That is way to thick for a C6 in a 40C+ climate, let alone Norway.

There is no reason to go thicker than an xW-30.

You should ignore anything else the person that recommended 10W-60 tells you. He's willing to give advice without knowing didly-squat about what he's saying.

 

Man, you suck at apologizing...a simple sorry would have been sufficient.

I agree, the forum is about sharing opinions and having fun. But it's also about sharing information and getting facts. I believe if you're going to state facts, they better be correct or this forum quickly becomes a useless bunch of BS. I also believe if you're going to put yourself out there (or attack in combat), you better be prepared to be corrected (or flamed in combat) if you're wrong...in other words, check your ego at the door and don't get upset when you're wrong. xs650 corrected me on the "W" designation test, my response was to credit him with being right, post links showing he's right, and thank him for setting me straight. I've made mistakes here before and will make them in the future...but I'm not afraid to risk being wrong or make a mistake. That's what makes me so good at my job as it requires a substantial amount of risk at times, it's even written in my position description that I'm expected to take risks...failure is not an option in certain situations and they don't want to hear of me leaving an asset out of theater saying "I was afraid to deviate from specs".

I've actually learned a few things in this thread from the research I've done (and of course from xs650). I never would have thought to question the use of 0W30 until the OP asked the question. I hope you can get off that stubborn mule you're on and admit you've learned a few things too. That's what this forum is about. I hope others have learned 0W30 is perfectly acceptable to use and even preferred in certain situations.

Actually, I do have a sense of humor. It's a little sick at times though, like when I get a spirited discussion going here... It's funny when you say I'm obsessive about this subject when your last post equaled the number of posts I had made...the irony was hilarious! Like I said before: Pot...meet kettle. You're too funny.

Seriously, I meant no harm but you have to admit it was fun. I think the more spirited the discussion, the more people tend to learn as they're spurred on by each other to dig deeper for facts. And then other members here learn too. If I'm ever in Colorado Springs, I'll buy you a drink.

PS For the record, I did take the "Hummer" comment as a joke, no harm no foul.
I just wanted you to see a little of who I am.

 

looks like glass just like to attack anyone that disagree with him. it is a shame. grow up!

 

I see you have a reading/comprehension problem too...
I disagreed with whiterock1 and he attacked me. You're like the person coming in on the end of a conversation at a party and trying to jump in. And I've already used the "grow up" angle, real original/witty.

 

here we go again. it never stops, slipper vs "whomever disagree with him". looks like you always has to have the last insult time and time again.

 

Hairbags post (#20) answers your question. To maintain the Warranty use a 5W-30 that meets GM 4718M. If you don't worry about Warranty use any oil you want.

 

more lies? show me where you had use grow up words before i did, can't come up with your own words? try doing some reading with the dictionary. there is still hope for you even at your age. i think!

 

Read my post again...I said "grow up angle", not "words". Angle means idea, words mean...well the exact words. And here's the post/proof:

Speaking of which, your maturity is really showing, are you 16 or 17. You might want to read that dictionary yourself.

 

you remind me of a jr high school bully, just didn't know it would be a 50 year old bully. whiterock has been extremely helpful to all of us, so if you can't post anything without attacking 5-6 members, just do all of us a favor and turn your computer off. go and have a long drive, road rage seem to suit you better.

 

You guys need to give it a break. Here is a video of 5W-20 hard at work in my itty bitty Ford nitrous car...

http://www.joelynch.org/videos/072905allruns.wmv

Yes, I have groupies. Ignore the wide band reading, this is at 3000' altitude in the summer. Car runs quicker than this at sea level.

Joe