Torque Mgmt for A6 - Recommendations?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 292
Likes: 1
From: Chandler Arizona
Torque Mgmt for A6 - Recommendations?
With a slightly modded engine... headers, intake, exhaust, stat... what should I look for with TM removal in a tune? Is it too abusive on the A6 to remove it completely? Should I go with some lesser percentage? I want to get as much pure power to the ground, but do want to keep tranny intact over the long-term.
Submitting to the experts... thanks!
Submitting to the experts... thanks!
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
With a slightly modded engine... headers, intake, exhaust, stat... what should I look for with TM removal in a tune? Is it too abusive on the A6 to remove it completely? Should I go with some lesser percentage? I want to get as much pure power to the ground, but do want to keep tranny intact over the long-term.
Submitting to the experts... thanks!
Submitting to the experts... thanks!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
It is my understanding that HPTuners 2.1.19 (Beta) will allow you to just turn off TM during the shifts. Some people have reported that the shifts are too hard at WOT and dangerous on the street. I'm going to try in in September to see if I like it. However, there is no middle ground, just either turn it off or on during shifts only.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
From: Farmington Hills MI
A6 Tm
HP can shut TM off completely. If you are at/under 500/500 rw, you'll love it. HP also has a window now to pull timing based on torque. My TTix is set up that way now, 500ftlbs (rear wheel). We had it all removed for about 2 days on low boost it blew out the planetary set torington bearings. I'm now on tranny 2.
RoadRebel (Phil Hoefler aka Dr.Phil) on the C5 forced induction forums can give you the scoop.
Regards,
George aka Torxila
RoadRebel (Phil Hoefler aka Dr.Phil) on the C5 forced induction forums can give you the scoop.
Regards,
George aka Torxila
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
HP can shut TM off completely. If you are at/under 500/500 rw, you'll love it. HP also has a window now to pull timing based on torque. My TTix is set up that way now, 500ftlbs (rear wheel). We had it all removed for about 2 days on low boost it blew out the planetary set torington bearings. I'm now on tranny 2.
RoadRebel (Phil Hoefler aka Dr.Phil) on the C5 forced induction forums can give you the scoop.
Regards,
George aka Torxila
RoadRebel (Phil Hoefler aka Dr.Phil) on the C5 forced induction forums can give you the scoop.
Regards,
George aka Torxila
Pro
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
From: Farmington Hills MI
Phil works directly with HP on prototyping. My car was the guinea pig for the first TTix A6 done. Phil gets "beta-test" software to help test/prove stuff.
He may have versions no one else has access to until released by HP tuners.
Rather than call bs why don't you call Phil.(aka RoadRebel) The Cartek guys probably know of him. The ECS boys know him.
You're welcome
Last edited by TORXILA; Aug 17, 2007 at 12:07 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 35
From: Turlock CA
(not meant at you Glenn) 
I wish I could get the throttle to respond instantly out of a corner rather than delay due to some interface with the computer saying, " warning, warning, unsafe behavior, you're sliding sideways, you'll probably die" each time I nail it. Yes, even with TC/AH off.
--Dan
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,838
Likes: 1
From: Valencia '32 Ford 3 window with 615 HP!!!!
St. Jude Donor '06-'09
Dan I have an A6 with about 510rwhp.
I planning on 3.15 gears in a month and want My tuner to get rid of TM!
How do You think I'll like it?
Thanks,George
I planning on 3.15 gears in a month and want My tuner to get rid of TM!
How do You think I'll like it?
Thanks,George
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
And ... could cause one to exceed the speed limit. Dangerous indeed. (not meant at you Glenn)
I wish I could get the throttle to respond instantly out of a corner rather than delay due to some interface with the computer saying, " warning, warning, unsafe behavior, you're sliding sideways, you'll probably die" each time I nail it. Yes, even with TC/AH off.
--Dan
(not meant at you Glenn) I wish I could get the throttle to respond instantly out of a corner rather than delay due to some interface with the computer saying, " warning, warning, unsafe behavior, you're sliding sideways, you'll probably die" each time I nail it. Yes, even with TC/AH off.
--Dan
I'll give you my opinion after my tune next month. One guy on HPTuners said he loved the stiffer shifts, another said it spun too much going into second. I do know that during every shift my A6 will pull timing down to -14 degrees.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 35
From: Turlock CA
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
Hey I'm trying to help here and you call bs?
Phil works directly with HP on prototyping. My car was the guinea pig for the first TTix A6 done. Phil gets "beta-test" software to help test/prove stuff.
He may have versions no one else has access to until released by HP tuners.
Rather than call bs why don't you call Phil.(aka RoadRebel) The Cartek guys probably know of him. The ECS boys know him.
You're welcome
Phil works directly with HP on prototyping. My car was the guinea pig for the first TTix A6 done. Phil gets "beta-test" software to help test/prove stuff.
He may have versions no one else has access to until released by HP tuners.
Rather than call bs why don't you call Phil.(aka RoadRebel) The Cartek guys probably know of him. The ECS boys know him.
You're welcome
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,844
Likes: 12
From: Alpharetta Georgia
So C6's have TC/AH AND TM?? So when you turn off TC for, lets say, doing a big nasty burnout, does TM kill the power to keep the wheels from spinning?? It sounds like a backup to TC which is a load of crap if it is. I am assuming it is there to keep the driveline in tact as having 2 systems that are redundant is even too stupid for Chevy.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes: 1
My tuner (Jeff at CAM) has the latest updates for the tuners and the A6 still has TM in it. I'd be a happy **** if there was a way to completely turn it off from every aspect of the car, that way the car can achieve what it should have from the factory.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Everyone might want to keep in mind that there are several leading brands of tuning tools. All of them depend on cracking GM proprietary code and building their own software routines to alter the GM settings currently read and understood.
Meanwhile tuners tend to stick with a single brand of tuning software. They have a time-investment riding the learning curve they'd not wish to repeat.
So when a tuner cites what can and can not be done with Torque Management, s/he is really talking about the current status of the the tools in use at that shop.
If HPTuner publishes a new release, it may very well give capabilities tuners using different tools don't have.
But that industry is like spy-vs-counterspy or leap-frog. Most advantages are temporary.
Ranger
Meanwhile tuners tend to stick with a single brand of tuning software. They have a time-investment riding the learning curve they'd not wish to repeat.
So when a tuner cites what can and can not be done with Torque Management, s/he is really talking about the current status of the the tools in use at that shop.
If HPTuner publishes a new release, it may very well give capabilities tuners using different tools don't have.
But that industry is like spy-vs-counterspy or leap-frog. Most advantages are temporary.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Aug 17, 2007 at 02:42 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,336
Likes: 966
From: Carlsbad Ca
Yup!
Nope, it kills some power to keep the driveline from excessive course.
Somewhat "redundant" safety systems help people that don't know how to drive look better than they actually are...
So when you turn off TC for, lets say, doing a big nasty burnout, does TM kill the power to keep the wheels from spinning??
It sounds like a backup to TC which is a load of crap if it is. I am assuming it is there to keep the driveline in tact as having 2 systems that are redundant is even too stupid for Chevy.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
Everyone might want to keep in mind that there are several leading brands of tuning tools. All of them depend on cracking GM proprietary code and building their own software routines to alter the GM settings currently read and understood.
Meanwhile tuners tend to stick with a single brand of tuning software. They have a time-investment riding the learning curve they'd not wish to repeat.
So when a tuner cites what can and can be done with Torque Management, s/he is really talking about the current status of the the tools in use at that shop.
If HPTuner publishes a new release, it may very well give capabilities tuners using different tools don't have.
But that industry is like spy-vs-counterspy or leap-frog. Most advantages are temporary.
Ranger
Meanwhile tuners tend to stick with a single brand of tuning software. They have a time-investment riding the learning curve they'd not wish to repeat.
So when a tuner cites what can and can be done with Torque Management, s/he is really talking about the current status of the the tools in use at that shop.
If HPTuner publishes a new release, it may very well give capabilities tuners using different tools don't have.
But that industry is like spy-vs-counterspy or leap-frog. Most advantages are temporary.
Ranger
that is true! and Julio uses them all. thats why he is the best
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,454
Likes: 130
From: Fernandina Beach
all I know is when SpeedInc used hp tuners beta and tm deleted my car ran even better than after the original tune and headers. You want firm shift at wot and anyone who says they're "dangerous" should not be driving a vette. This is the way I want my sports car to respond and shift. It's only stiff at wot and all it does is spin the tires from 1 to 2 but you're not going sideways or anything
Ted
Ted
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 35
From: Turlock CA
all I know is when SpeedInc used hp tuners beta and tm deleted my car ran even better than after the original tune and headers. You want firm shift at wot and anyone who says they're "dangerous" should not be driving a vette. This is the way I want my sports car to respond and shift. It's only stiff at wot and all it does is spin the tires from 1 to 2 but you're not going sideways or anything
Ted
Ted
It's not an issue in a straight line and the tune I have firmed up the shifts to break the tires loose if for some reason I need that. But, with a "sports car" I want it to work in corners as well as a straight line.
And ... if by chance you're referring to my comment to Glenn earlier, I had meant to convey sarcasm in advance of the gloom-and-doomers chiming in to say we're all going to die if we don't stop driving our hot rod Lincolns.
--Dan
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
The problem that hasn't been tuned out to my knowledge is the hesitation in the throttle that happens when you are already sideways in a corner (on purpose) and trying to accelerate out -- particularly when autocrossing because of the violent transitions compared to HPDE. For instance, running mid-range in 2nd using the paddles to hold the A6 in gear, the throttle won't fully engage when you step on the gas. There is a noticeable wait and like a half second later when the car straightens out leaving the turn the throttle then opens wide and launches you into the next corner -- usually breaking even 335x17 Kumho 710s loose. It's not uncontrollable but it sure doesn't allow the control that's desired when trying to run quickly.
It's not an issue in a straight line and the tune I have firmed up the shifts to break the tires loose if for some reason I need that. But, with a "sports car" I want it to work in corners as well as a straight line.
And ... if by chance you're referring to my comment to Glenn earlier, I had meant to convey sarcasm in advance of the gloom-and-doomers chiming in to say we're all going to die if we don't stop driving our hot rod Lincolns.
--Dan
It's not an issue in a straight line and the tune I have firmed up the shifts to break the tires loose if for some reason I need that. But, with a "sports car" I want it to work in corners as well as a straight line.
And ... if by chance you're referring to my comment to Glenn earlier, I had meant to convey sarcasm in advance of the gloom-and-doomers chiming in to say we're all going to die if we don't stop driving our hot rod Lincolns.
--Dan