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Old Sep 20, 2008 | 10:25 AM
  #1  
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St. Jude Donor '08
Default 2 questions please.

Ok heres the deal, i have a engine that was done by MTI houston before they went **** up, heres what was done, 205cc heads,kooks long 1 7/8",238/242 MTI cam/xcelerator induction/ 60 lb injectors/ MTI underdrive Pully/ Z06 catback ,NNP zo6 mild to wild/ 348 gears. the car made 536 at the crank, or 479 rwhp.
Now the question. i want more!!! Thinking maggie or paxton,If I did this would i need to change inturnals? aka rods pistons crank or cam ? I dont want a flash in pan, would rather pay for something thats gonna hang togather.
The 2 types of blowers, please tell the dif and the best choice. its a garage queen/track a tme or two. but want to beable to drive on cruises.and weekend worrier stuff.
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Old Sep 20, 2008 | 11:01 AM
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Well, hopefully when they did the engine they went with a nice set of forged rods and pistons. The key will be your compression. The stock compression on the C6's is already high for boost. But, you can get away with 8#'s on pump gas with a safe tune very easily. If your compression is bumped up with the built motor, then you would probably need to be running 5#'s or so. Do you have a spec sheet for the engine build?
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Old Sep 20, 2008 | 01:03 PM
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We always want more. Good luck.
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Old Sep 20, 2008 | 05:23 PM
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If you want to go much more over the power you have now it is a very good idea to have a forged crank and other internals. The stock stuff on the c6's is built very well but after a certain point your playing with fire. You'll also need a beefed up rearend for more horse too. Keep that in mind.
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Old Sep 20, 2008 | 05:40 PM
  #5  
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St. Jude Donor '08
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Originally Posted by c6 batmobile
If you want to go much more over the power you have now it is a very good idea to have a forged crank and other internals. The stock stuff on the c6's is built very well but after a certain point your playing with fire. You'll also need a beefed up rearend for more horse too. Keep that in mind.
agreed!!
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Old Sep 20, 2008 | 05:59 PM
  #6  
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From: St. Lucie, FLORIDA 757 RWHP 694 RWTQ
Default Procharger

I never had problems with my P series procharger on my 05 A4 and I made 520 RWHP. Look at Jeremy aka "Mr Big" and the results he is getting with the little P series procharger and on a STOCK BOTTOM END. He is making as much as me and I have a forged LS7 with the F1A procharger on it. I did run into heat problems but those were solved quickly by Geoff at Next Level Performance with the Big Bolla mod and a little trick of his own doing. THANKS GEOFF
750 RWHP or 900 at the crank is plenty of horses for me and still very streetable. I just love my F1A procharger set-up
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Old Sep 20, 2008 | 07:41 PM
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The OP says he has an engine that was done already. I thought he meant it was already built up. If he only means they added a cam and heads, then that will be a different story.
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Old Sep 21, 2008 | 05:50 AM
  #8  
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From: sugar land tx
St. Jude Donor '08
Default thanks roller

Originally Posted by C6 ROLLER
I never had problems with my P series procharger on my 05 A4 and I made 520 RWHP. Look at Jeremy aka "Mr Big" and the results he is getting with the little P series procharger and on a STOCK BOTTOM END. He is making as much as me and I have a forged LS7 with the F1A procharger on it. I did run into heat problems but those were solved quickly by Geoff at Next Level Performance with the Big Bolla mod and a little trick of his own doing. THANKS GEOFF
750 RWHP or 900 at the crank is plenty of horses for me and still very streetable. I just love my F1A procharger set-up
Jesus 750 hp? got to be a rocket!! Truthfully, can you get all that to the ground?
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Old Sep 21, 2008 | 01:20 PM
  #9  
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Default

Originally Posted by buddabing
Ok heres the deal, i have a engine that was done by MTI houston before they went **** up, heres what was done, 205cc heads,kooks long 1 7/8",238/242 MTI cam/xcelerator induction/ 60 lb injectors/ MTI underdrive Pully/ Z06 catback ,NNP zo6 mild to wild/ 348 gears. the car made 536 at the crank, or 479 rwhp.
Now the question. i want more!!! Thinking maggie or paxton,If I did this would i need to change inturnals? aka rods pistons crank or cam ? I dont want a flash in pan, would rather pay for something thats gonna hang togather.
The 2 types of blowers, please tell the dif and the best choice. its a garage queen/track a tme or two. but want to beable to drive on cruises.and weekend worrier stuff.
A stock C6 Z06 dynos around 460WHP with an SAE certified 505HP crank, so 479whp isn't quite 536crank; more like 520. But I digress...
Your results are the reason I lookd at Heads/Cam carefully but decided to supercharge instead; you paid considerably more than I did to make considerably less power. Now, I have good news and bad news...
The good news is that a lot of what you have; your injectors, your exhaust, your headers, will transfer over into the superchaged setup and allow it to make more power at less boost. The other good news is that your engine is safe up to a good deal of power (600+WHP) on stock internals, which you almost certainly have since there is no point in doing pistons or connecting rods on a heads/cam engine.
Now the bad news: Your cam is probably too agressive for a blower setup. It will work, but you are going to have all the downsides of a big cam (poor idle, surging, poor fuel economy) with extra fuel being wasted through the exhaust. I would stick a stock cam in there and sell this one for a profit. Or get a blower cam; those are much milder and allow you to enjoy a Supercharged engine for what it does best; stock driveability, near stock gas mileage, perfect road manners and tons of power when you want it.
The heads can be a potential problem too; the 205cc combustion chambers are bumping up your compression ratio, so you will only be able to run very limited boost before running into detonation. I don't know what the actual compression ratio is for your engine but it may be too high for boost. You can sell the heads and get stock ones, or get some stock chamber size aftermarket heads if you need the extra flow.
The under drive pulley will have to go too; your blowers won't make much boost while being under driven.. Again you can sell it to make back some of the money you spend on the supercharger kit.

Now, onto the blower. There are 3 types of superchargers for our engine:
Roots (Magnuson)
Centrifugal (Vortech, Paxton, Procharger)
Twin Screw (Kenne Bell, Whipple)

The Roots will make almost instant low end boost, producing massive low end torque, but it will require an aftermarket raised hood. They also die off at the top end and so typically don't produce the numbers Centrifugals do. They are also the least effcient blowers, producing a lot of heat.
I won't discuss Twin Screws because no one has a good kit out for our cars yet. Suffice to say that they have similar driving characteristics to Roots blower but are more efficient.
Centrifugals do not require hood changes. They are more efficient than roots and produce less heat. The downsideis that they do not produce much low end boost, and so the torque gains come later with those blowers. This can be advantageous for street cars running street tires. They also make excellent top end.

I ended up going with the A&A Vortech kit. I paid 5300 shipped for the kit and did the install myself, for free. On my car with headers, catted X-pipe and a C6Z06 exhaust the kit performed as follows: This is on pump gas, no methanol and a bone stock engine with stock heads stock cam and stock internals.


Here is the kit installed:


This is my daily driver; I drive it to work every day, and lately it has been raining all the time. You would never know the car isn't stock if you were in the passenger seat unless I told you; the street manners are impeccable. On throttle, it is *spectacular*. It will pull in 4rth gear almost as hard as it pulled in 2nd back when it was just on bolt ons. I highly recommend A&A's kit. But the answer to your question "which one is best?" will depend on a lot more than what worked for me and what I happened to want for my particular car; you need to look at how much power you want to make, what you are going to be doing with the car, etc etc.. I hope my post helps you make a more informed decision though

Last edited by PowerLabs; Sep 21, 2008 at 01:28 PM.
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Old Sep 21, 2008 | 02:03 PM
  #10  
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buddabing
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From: sugar land tx
St. Jude Donor '08
Default Friggening amazing!!

Originally Posted by PowerLabs
A stock C6 Z06 dynos around 460WHP with an SAE certified 505HP crank, so 479whp isn't quite 536crank; more like 520. But I digress...
Your results are the reason I lookd at Heads/Cam carefully but decided to supercharge instead; you paid considerably more than I did to make considerably less power. Now, I have good news and bad news...
The good news is that a lot of what you have; your injectors, your exhaust, your headers, will transfer over into the superchaged setup and allow it to make more power at less boost. The other good news is that your engine is safe up to a good deal of power (600+WHP) on stock internals, which you almost certainly have since there is no point in doing pistons or connecting rods on a heads/cam engine.
Now the bad news: Your cam is probably too agressive for a blower setup. It will work, but you are going to have all the downsides of a big cam (poor idle, surging, poor fuel economy) with extra fuel being wasted through the exhaust. I would stick a stock cam in there and sell this one for a profit. Or get a blower cam; those are much milder and allow you to enjoy a Supercharged engine for what it does best; stock driveability, near stock gas mileage, perfect road manners and tons of power when you want it.
The heads can be a potential problem too; the 205cc combustion chambers are bumping up your compression ratio, so you will only be able to run very limited boost before running into detonation. I don't know what the actual compression ratio is for your engine but it may be too high for boost. You can sell the heads and get stock ones, or get some stock chamber size aftermarket heads if you need the extra flow.
The under drive pulley will have to go too; your blowers won't make much boost while being under driven.. Again you can sell it to make back some of the money you spend on the supercharger kit.

Now, onto the blower. There are 3 types of superchargers for our engine:
Roots (Magnuson)
Centrifugal (Vortech, Paxton, Procharger)
Twin Screw (Kenne Bell, Whipple)

The Roots will make almost instant low end boost, producing massive low end torque, but it will require an aftermarket raised hood. They also die off at the top end and so typically don't produce the numbers Centrifugals do. They are also the least effcient blowers, producing a lot of heat.
I won't discuss Twin Screws because no one has a good kit out for our cars yet. Suffice to say that they have similar driving characteristics to Roots blower but are more efficient.
Centrifugals do not require hood changes. They are more efficient than roots and produce less heat. The downsideis that they do not produce much low end boost, and so the torque gains come later with those blowers. This can be advantageous for street cars running street tires. They also make excellent top end.

I ended up going with the A&A Vortech kit. I paid 5300 shipped for the kit and did the install myself, for free. On my car with headers, catted X-pipe and a C6Z06 exhaust the kit performed as follows: This is on pump gas, no methanol and a bone stock engine with stock heads stock cam and stock internals.


Here is the kit installed:


This is my daily driver; I drive it to work every day, and lately it has been raining all the time. You would never know the car isn't stock if you were in the passenger seat unless I told you; the street manners are impeccable. On throttle, it is *spectacular*. It will pull in 4rth gear almost as hard as it pulled in 2nd back when it was just on bolt ons. I highly recommend A&A's kit. But the answer to your question "which one is best?" will depend on a lot more than what worked for me and what I happened to want for my particular car; you need to look at how much power you want to make, what you are going to be doing with the car, etc etc.. I hope my post helps you make a more informed decision though
ITS stuff like this that makes this forum so Valueable !! thank you for your time Power. 2 steps back for 1 step forward? i think i'll stay with what i got. Maybe the next one... again thanks!
Reply
Old Sep 21, 2008 | 02:19 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by buddabing
ITS stuff like this that makes this forum so Valueable !! thank you for your time Power. 2 steps back for 1 step forward? i think i'll stay with what i got. Maybe the next one... again thanks!
My pleasure Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions
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