silver_2000

Lexus just announced a recall or 200,000 plus cars due to corrosion of 10% ethanol causes on fuel system parts

If 10% ethanol can eat thru lexus parts imagine the issue with 85% ethanol

stanger383

I run it in my 87 Grand National BBC and 106mm turbo. VERY mild tune I made 1157 RWHP at 14.6 psi boost. 3800 pound car ran 167mph in the quarter first time out on radials with boost ramping up to 14.6 not until 4 seconds into the run. Its good stuff! Norm

SpinMonster

I am fully convinced about using it in both vehicles purely from an envirnmental and performance standpoint. Better towing capacity on the truck and more power in the vette. It will be the only fuel later in time for all cars. The issue is, the fuel system on the vette is maxxed out for 700hp+ guys and there arent a lot of options yet. I will use the Z06 pump when I swap the clutch out next week but the ZR1's pump may hold the answer.

The Z06 pump is 299 plus shipping from 3 GM parts dealers. GM parts direct is 270 plus 45 shipping if anyone is interested.

Since the driveline has to come out for the clutch, the pump swap is 1/2 done at that point.

'VETTE PHASE

Sheesh, you've got issues.

SpinMonster

Lexas (a foreign car) isnt on board with what GM has done with building all their vehicles to ethanol use standards so to answer your question.....nothing happens to our car since they will all be flex fuel vehicles in a few years and are already compliant since 1997. All C5's are ethanol ready.

I take these cars apart all the time and all of the cars I work on use 10% ethanol gas. No issues at all with any of the parts. I posted links to pics of a GM vehicle that ran E85 from day one for 110k miles and instead of reading it and seeing that it was the cleanest engine tear down you could see, you want to post about japanese cars. That truck engine had no reason to be torn down other than the owner wanting to dispell myths such as the info you posted.

E85 is 100% fine for use in current GM vehicles, vettes included. The tests show that 10% ethanol has more deposits on valves than E85 does. In other words testing showed that the deposits didnt climb as the percentage of ethanol went up from 10%.....in fact, it dropped.

Skunkworks

Thought Zr1 pump is 3-phase, were Z06 is standard DC motor.

SpinMonster

What is a 3 phase fuel pump? 3 different voltages sort of simulating a BAP? Would you mind expanding or giving a link to what it means?

Craigster05

Pulled from Wikipedia:

A three phase induction motor has a simple design, inherently high starting torque, and high efficiency. Such motors are applied in industry for pumps, fans, blowers, compressors, conveyor drives, and many other kinds of motor-driven equipment. A three-phase motor will be more compact and less costly than a single-phase motor of the same voltage class and rating; and single-phase AC motors above 10 HP (7.5 kW) are uncommon. Three phase motors will also vibrate less and hence last longer than single phase motor of the same power used under the same conditions.

Joe_G

Our cars are all DC current, so I don't think we can have 3 phase AC motors? I don't even have 3 phase current at my house!

Skunkworks

True, but its my understanding ZR1 has a on demand fuel pump. That means as demand (fuel injectors) goes up, so must fuel pump. This is to avoid additional heating in fuel system.


3-phase can be done on car level (DC system) and is being done...


Mike

HuskerBullet

This is a great idea. However, down here in Orange County, CA, there are no stations at all, but I'm sure eventually there will be.

glass slipper

Check it out:
http://www.nidec.com/admcmc/admcmc.htm
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/id...param=en026720
Three phase DC motors offer very fine control of RPM which fits perfect for controlling fuel pressure via computer control/ECM. Actually, the controllers for those motors simulate AC power to the motor meaning they aren't pure DC motors, but they are powered by DC electricity.

Joe_G

I like to learn something every day. When I see Glass Slipper posting, I know I will!

Craigster05

Yes, Rich has beaten some very useful information into this thick skull of mine

silver_2000

If all GM cars were already E85 ready wouldn't GM be advertising that ? Especially now ? They have been making all their cars e85 compliant vehicles for 12 years ? But not marketing that ? Hmm ... One link I found showed less than 40 E85 stations in all of Texas.

You assume that anyone that disagrees with you couldn't have read the data you posted ? Nice open mind ...

What I posted is NOT a myth - its a recall - most would call a recall fact. The recall I posted said nothing about deposits - it was related to corrosion.

My point was that even a premium brand like Lexus with exceptional reliability has seen issues with fuel systems, alcohol and corrosion. I thought the news would be useful here for background.

Thanks for pointing out that Lexus is a foreign car - That got past me

SpinMonster

I wasnt trying to be a wise azz.

GM cars are E85 compliant not E85 ready. Your terminology is where the issue is. They are E85 compliant because they are all E10 ready.

E85 wasnt the reason they made the fuel system work with it; E10 was. GM doesnt put any car out that has an issue with ethanol since its more the norm than not to have gas going in that has 10% ethanol in it. The fact that ethanol was being added to gas accross the country and its what is likely in your car now was why and thats been around for quite some time. Your gas is likely E10 now an no GM isnt going to advertise that its able to run ordinary gas. Should they?

I'm sorry if they way I typed it offended you. It wasnt the intent.

jkittleson

Spin,

Just tore down my forged 427 and have decided to make it a dedicated track car. The block and heads are at the machine shop, and going with 12.3:1 compression, with the GM Stage 3 cam.

I priced race fuel and at 8 bucks a gallon, this conversion seems like a great deal.

I have HPTuners, so what do I need to make the conversion? What size injectors are needed for the increased fuel supply? And will the Z06 fuel pump keep up with the demand?

SpinMonster

12.3 with that cam is fine on 93 but....E85's greatest quality is its octane rating. People stating 'its not worth it' arent looking at that. Power and economy are definitely better IF YOU BUILD THE ENGINE FOR USE WITH E85. 106-110 octane allows the use of 13:1 to 13.5:1 compression with 7 liter cams at a DCR or 10:1. This is where the power and economy are maximized. At 12.3:1 static with a 230 cam in a 427 is fine for use with 93 octane.

Getting to your tech question, the Z06 pump will support 650rwhp N/A but the 30% additional fuel flow for those power levels exceeds the Z06's flow capacity with E85. If you hit 570-600rwhp you will need a pump that handles alomst 800rwhp N/A. This could be a Z06 pump with a KB boost a pump. An MSD pump booster is boost referenced and wont work. I think its dangerous.

Your application would be better served with an alky injection kit that is triggered with a non-boost referenced activation. Its advantage is that Meth cools the air charge and also extends the pump's headroom because its injecting a fuel. Meth systems can be triggered by rpm at say 5k for this application.

E85 is always there but if the pump booster fails you go lean. If the meth injection fails youre still at 93 octane and not lean but your octane falls to a lower level. I'd rather be at 93 octane with the right a/f with a failed alky system than lean with E85 not flowing enough volume because of a failed fuel system voltage mess up.

Injector size for E85 and 600rwhp is 60's. Motrons come in shorty 60's and are what I run.
Tuning includes changing stoic to E85's value.

shizon'00

You'll also need to add spark and modify your olfa at lower ECT temps.

NOSLO6

I'm running E85 in the Grand National (turbo car) in my sig and with careful tuning I was able to make more power on E85 than on C16. I should run high 9s this season.

As spin noted above, you need to flow substantially more E85 than straight gas-- in my case I had to plan carefully around injector and fuel pump size. I'll also note that it takes a lot of tinkering to get a good cold start when it drops below 40F or so. This may be far less difficult to deal with given the C6s sophisticated ignition system.

I'm lucky in that there's an E85 pump in center city Philly.