I swear this subject keeps me up at night cause I hate oil in the manifold.


So my question is this. I have the above pictured elite catch can. Can I not just route the PCV hose to the side of the catch can and then route the hose that comes out of the TOP of the catch can to the bottom of the car? I could then cap the port on the side of the intake manifold.

Wouldnt this serve the same purpose as a breather can without me having to spend another $80?

I already have a small breather on the passenger side valve cover port. Not worried there. Doesnt seem to have oil coming from there as the filter is still fairly white since it was first installed.



Also to those that have the Elite can how is your hosed? I have the side port going to the intake and the PCV going to the top. When I think of the internal design of the can this doesnt make sense to me though. Wouldnt it make sense to have the top port come from the intake and the side port come from the PCV.

Keep me honest on all of the above please.

 

I also have Elite Engineerings Catch Can. I installed the Catch Can at 3K miles and just added the SpinFAST Intake at 11K miles. Driving 8 thousand miles with the Catch Can in place, I noticed a thin film of oil in the stock intake but nothing on the Throttle Body. When installing the SpinFAST I plugged the Port behind the TB and routed the hose that went from the Catch Can to this port down toward the ground. My present configuration is as follows: Valley Cover to top of Catch Can; Hose from side of Catch Can extended down toward the ground. For now, I will leave the connection that runs from the valve cover to the coupler in front of the TB. If I notice oil on the TB because of this connection, I will then run a hose from the Valve Cover toward the ground, plug the coupler connection in front of the TB and add a K&N Vent Filter to the passenger side oil Filler Tube. I too was puzzled by the routing of hoses for Elite's Catch Can. However, it worked quite well and was a big improvement over the stock arrangement but did not eliminate the problem of oil in the intake.

 

Spin, what oil cap breather do you recommend?

 

Also to those that have the Elite can how is your hosed? I have the side port going to the intake and the PCV going to the top. When I think of the internal design of the can this doesnt make sense to me though. Wouldnt it make sense to have the top port come from the intake and the side port come from the PCV.

Keep me honest on all of the above please.[/QUOTE]


The Elite can is set up for the crancase fumes to exit the valley cover nipple, enter the top of the can, go through the filter (where most oil in the fumes is trapped and condensed), and then scrubbed fumes return through the side of the can to the intake nipple behind the throttle body. The trapped oil drips down into the can.

This keeps the integrity of a closed PCV system intact. Thus fresh air comes from the coupler ahead of the throttle body and goes through the hose to the passenger side valve cover, flows into the crankcase and replaces the fumes being pulled out through the valley cover and into the intake through the can. Nothing goes into the atmosphere per smog law requirements. Any other of the setups discussed dumps to the atmosphere.

The can obviously doesn't scrub 100% of the oil out of the fumes, thus some small amount will get through and find it's way into the intake plenum leaving a coating; but the amount will be significantly reduced from an engine with no catch can. The proof of this is what you find in the can. The only way to eliminate all oil in the plenum is to plug the nipple behind the throttle body; thus nothing goes into the intake. That's what the suggestions above and SpinMonsters system do. Whatever enters those systems simply results from whatever blowby pressure is in the crancase and vents out to the atmosphere at atmosheric pressure.

The can, properly hosed, is in compliance with PCV requirements. The other setups aren't.

 

Mike Norris's can is plumbed the same way, and with about the same results. I know the C5 guys had some pretty elaborate catch can schemes..Like running an air compressor filter in the line to the manifold after a catch can...I'm still thinking on this one. I like the idea of fresh air circulating through the crankcase keeping the nastiness down.

 

great conversation guys. I think I am going to try the approach of capping the inlet behind the TB and running the vapors out of the car.

Thanks

 

Oh, last question.

Is there any kindof vacuum from the port behind the TB? Is it pulling air into the manifold or pushing air out?

 

Another way to scrub more oil out would be to run the outlet from the can into a second can and then out of that into the intake. You could carry this out even further with additional cans in series; but after two I would imagine the return per dollar spent would be very small.

 

Pulling into.

 

the port behind the TB has manifold vacumm!!
I will block mine when I get my intake back!!

 

Blocking the port means no more vacuum pull on the crankcase. This might produce a DIC warning and pull a code. I'm only speculating here, because I don't know, but you are altering the emission control system, essentially disabling the PCV system. Someone who has done this can chime in.

 

Thanks for all your helpful info here. I too am wondering if those spin type breather cans will pass emission tests in those states that have them. Somehow I doubt it.
I know venting this stuff to the atmosphere isnt exactly Green either, for those who care.

 

I found this breather cap.Looks good.

http://www.nakidparts.com/id49.html

 

Is there any kind of foul smell inside the car from venting to the atmosphere when running this type of setup?

 

It's not really a vacuum, more of a constant flow to expel the fumes/oil vapor.

 

I guess since my catch can is pictured all over this thread I will give my 2 cents worth on the subject.

First and foremost I will not say that my Norris Motorsports version is better then others out there that are of similar design such as Elite Engineering and AMW. Thye are all of billet aluminum design and contain an internal baffle system that seperates the oil and air to keep the oil from entering the intake tract. My intent when building the NM version was to have a lower cost USA made billet can that works.

The NM can will work for 90-95% of folks out there that have stock, bolt-on or average heads & cam cars as well as a normally built NA big engine.

If you have a forced induction or nitorus car on a stock engine it will generally work well also as long as the engine is in good condition. Also, a one check valve in the PCV system on a forced induction model is a must have item.

When it comes to a more loosely built engine, heavy nitrous (more then 150HP) and heavier boost applications (11+ PSI) there can be enough crank case pressure build up to over whelm any of these catch cans. In these applications I have had folks add a second catch can to the breather side of the system also.

When it comes to having an external breather on the valve cover or catch can, I am against it for a daily driver as it usually leads to two issues. One is having the hot oil vapor smell in the engine bay area which can at times be noticed while driving in traffic, in parking lots and while stopped. This vapor smell can also infiltrate the AC system if the vapor gets near the fresh air intake. Second is dripping oil out of the breather filter if the crankcase pressure is bad enough.

This is not to say that an external breather does not have its place. For folks that have a higher HP engine with a large cube engine, big nitrous or big boost, there is almost no way to contain all of the vapors reasonably. Again, this in most cases covers about 5-10% of the cars out there. I try to keep from going "old school" if at all possible.

There is one thing that folks are doing to their PCV and breather systems that is a complete no no and makes a well setup up external breather look perfectly fine. This is that some folks are just blocking off the intake port for the PCV and the port for the breather at the TB or intake tract and just having open hoses dangling towards the ground. yes, this will not allow any oil into the intake for sure, but it also allows un-filtered air into the crankcase which can cause damage over time. It is an initially cheap alternative that can be costly down the road. If you really think you must do this, please at least put some kind of filters on the ends of the hoses. Unfortunately this practice of just having dangling hoses is being pushed by a well respected tuner and therefore deemed acceptable, and folks should know better.

There was also a comment about mine being hard to drain and I will agree with that to the point that you can not use the drain **** while it is mounted. When this can was first designed it just had a flat bottom due to the location it would have near the heater hoses. All I recieved were people saying that there had to be a drain or they would not buy it. So we added a drain. I still do not like the drain personally, but the idea of adding a hose and a drain **** at the end of it is cool.

What I did to combat the draining issue was to come up with my Gen2 and Gen2+ versions using the AN style fittngs. The AN fittings allow for easy inspection of the internal oil level as well as easier removal for draining if needed.

We could redesign the can with an easier draing system, but it will add to the cost and we do not want to do that. After selling approx 2000 units so far and having 5 nationwide distributors I would say it is doing just fine.

Hope this info helps and thanks.

Mike Norris

 

Does anyone have any detailed installation instructions for installing these catch/breather cans. I am sure this is not in the factory service manual. Just starting to do my own work on the car so it is all new to me but I am having a great time learning and improving my car.

Also do the hoses and conectors come with these units?

 

I can speak for the Elite Engineering can and nstallatoin is very straight forward. It will mount with one bolt and two hoses. All mounting hardware and hoses is included along with instructions. I suspect other cans are the same. It is a very easy installation.

 

It does help and thanks for posting. I asked Elite to comment on some of this stuff said on this thead but so far they have not, thus I am glad you did.

 

Check this out. I hope it helps.

http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/Catch_Can.html