LS2 E-Force and CAM?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 605
Likes: 15
From: Rocky Mountains Colorado
LS2 E-Force and CAM?
06/A6/LS2/Stock Converter and Gears:
I was ready to order the Spin recommended 224/224 XFI 115+2 CAM with associated hardware (timing chain springs, push rods, etc.) when Edelbrock unveiled their E-Force SC for the LS3 with plans for the LS2. This SC is just what I have been looking for!
Should I go with the E-Force leaving stock internals or continue with the CAM addition prior to adding the E-Force?
I plan to go with the E-Force that does not require upgrading the fuel delivery system (new fuel pump - BAP - etc.). will adding a CAM and E-Force, regardless of model, require upgrading the fuel system?
I will probably go with the E-Force initially and build from there as my performance expectations change. It may be more fun and make better sense to take this project one step at a time.
Your thoughts and recommendations are welcome.
I was ready to order the Spin recommended 224/224 XFI 115+2 CAM with associated hardware (timing chain springs, push rods, etc.) when Edelbrock unveiled their E-Force SC for the LS3 with plans for the LS2. This SC is just what I have been looking for!
Should I go with the E-Force leaving stock internals or continue with the CAM addition prior to adding the E-Force?
I plan to go with the E-Force that does not require upgrading the fuel delivery system (new fuel pump - BAP - etc.). will adding a CAM and E-Force, regardless of model, require upgrading the fuel system?
I will probably go with the E-Force initially and build from there as my performance expectations change. It may be more fun and make better sense to take this project one step at a time.
Your thoughts and recommendations are welcome.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 3
From: READING PA
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
06/A6/LS2/Stock Converter and Gears:
I was ready to order the Spin recommended 224/224 XFI 115+2 CAM with associated hardware (timing chain springs, push rods, etc.) when Edelbrock unveiled their E-Force SC for the LS3 with plans for the LS2. This SC is just what I have been looking for!
Should I go with the E-Force leaving stock internals or continue with the CAM addition prior to adding the E-Force?
I plan to go with the E-Force that does not require upgrading the fuel delivery system (new fuel pump - BAP - etc.). will adding a CAM and E-Force, regardless of model, require upgrading the fuel system?
I will probably go with the E-Force initially and build from there as my performance expectations change. It may be more fun and make better sense to take this project one step at a time.
Your thoughts and recommendations are welcome.
I was ready to order the Spin recommended 224/224 XFI 115+2 CAM with associated hardware (timing chain springs, push rods, etc.) when Edelbrock unveiled their E-Force SC for the LS3 with plans for the LS2. This SC is just what I have been looking for!
Should I go with the E-Force leaving stock internals or continue with the CAM addition prior to adding the E-Force?
I plan to go with the E-Force that does not require upgrading the fuel delivery system (new fuel pump - BAP - etc.). will adding a CAM and E-Force, regardless of model, require upgrading the fuel system?
I will probably go with the E-Force initially and build from there as my performance expectations change. It may be more fun and make better sense to take this project one step at a time.
Your thoughts and recommendations are welcome.
look. the advertised Hp will be more with our current mods but first I heard June 15th, then July 15th now End of july. We will see what they offer.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,999
Likes: 1,685
From: Southeast TX
If you add the cam, you will be making more power. More power requires more fuel. Figure on upgrading the fuel system if you add a bigger cam to your EForce. That cam wouldn't be my first choice for an EForce build.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 3
From: READING PA
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
are right on about fuel requirements which means upgrading my injectors
as my Scan they were running at 98% Duty Cycle with 500RWHP. Of course Im going to loose my FAST 102 which I had PORTED to out do my
PORTED 92 but I can sell them both to help with the $ 6500 presumed
cost of the E FORCE. I dont know how the E Force will do against the turbos but I could not interested in them.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,999
Likes: 1,685
From: Southeast TX
Im going to stick with the 228/232 which is a good supercharger CAM. You
are right on about fuel requirements which means upgrading my injectors
as my Scan they were running at 98% Duty Cycle with 500RWHP. Of course Im going to loose my FAST 102 which I had PORTED to out do my
PORTED 92 but I can sell them both to help with the $ 6500 presumed
cost of the E FORCE. I dont know how the E Force will do against the turbos but I could not interested in them.
are right on about fuel requirements which means upgrading my injectors
as my Scan they were running at 98% Duty Cycle with 500RWHP. Of course Im going to loose my FAST 102 which I had PORTED to out do my
PORTED 92 but I can sell them both to help with the $ 6500 presumed
cost of the E FORCE. I dont know how the E Force will do against the turbos but I could not interested in them.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,287
Likes: 1
From: Union City CA
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 605
Likes: 15
From: Rocky Mountains Colorado
I will wait on the LS2 E-Force and build from there. I'm sure the E-Force will satisfy my current need for speed, and as I become accustomed to the new performance I will then consider my next move. Perhaps gears (3.42) followed by upgrading Fuel Delivery (Fuel Pump, etc.), more boost, CAM, and perhaps a new torque converter (3000/3200). I plan to make one performance mod at a time, evaluating each modification upgrade and planning my next move from there. Thanks for your comments and contributions.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
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I am really curious how the twin screw blowers respond to a cam on the LS2 and LS3. The dynoplots I've seen show a ridiculously low torque band, with max torque substantially over max hp. While it will be fun to drive around town, and 500+ rwhp is nothing to sneeze at, these cars are going to feel like they are running out of air above 5k and frustrating down the 1/4 mile.
Since longer durations and lifts tend to move the torque band up on an NA car yielding more HP, wouldn't the same hold true for a SC engine?
Since longer durations and lifts tend to move the torque band up on an NA car yielding more HP, wouldn't the same hold true for a SC engine?
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,367
Likes: 2,900
From: Fort Worth, Texas
I am really curious how the twin screw blowers respond to a cam on the LS2 and LS3. The dynoplots I've seen show a ridiculously low torque band, with max torque substantially over max hp. While it will be fun to drive around town, and 500+ rwhp is nothing to sneeze at, these cars are going to feel like they are running out of air above 5k and frustrating down the 1/4 mile.
Since longer durations and lifts tend to move the torque band up on an NA car yielding more HP, wouldn't the same hold true for a SC engine?
Since longer durations and lifts tend to move the torque band up on an NA car yielding more HP, wouldn't the same hold true for a SC engine?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,367
Likes: 2,900
From: Fort Worth, Texas
that cam has -6* overlap, what would you recommend?
Pro
Joined: Sep 2005
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Been reading around trying to find the answer to my question. Looks like the cam to go with for stock drivability and idle with respectable gains is the ZR1 cam (should have thought of that). It is 211/230 @121 LSA. It's also apparently super cheap and can be picked up for $150.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
As I can see, the difference between the two E-Force offerings for the LS3, is the 599 HP has a smaller pulley and the Z06 fuel pump then the 554 HP version. I haven't seen anything on if Edelbrock is going to offer different versions of their LS2 kit, but I suspect they will.
A friend has a GS with a maggie, cam and long tubes and the shop installed a Boost a Pump instead of changing out the fuel pump. He said the Boost a Pump only increases the voltage, thus increasing the pump's output, when he is on it hard. Otherwise the stock fuel pump sees normal voltage. He doesn't expect to have any problems with the add on system to increase the fuel delivery as the car is a weekend toy. No racing.
A friend has a GS with a maggie, cam and long tubes and the shop installed a Boost a Pump instead of changing out the fuel pump. He said the Boost a Pump only increases the voltage, thus increasing the pump's output, when he is on it hard. Otherwise the stock fuel pump sees normal voltage. He doesn't expect to have any problems with the add on system to increase the fuel delivery as the car is a weekend toy. No racing.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 580
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From: Northville MI
I've arranged for Livernois Motorsports to install and E-Force blower on my A6 LS2. I didn't want to wait for Edelbrock to release the LS2 setup so we'll be using LS3 heads and a Livernois Stage 2C cam with 224/236 duration, .612 lift and 117 LSA. According to Rick @ Livernois, this cam will make good power on the blown setup with a stock converter and will only require a Boost-a-Pump. The car currently has a Magnaflow catback with stock exhaust manifolds. He indicated that if or when I add headers I would have to change the blower pulley to recover lost boost and would probably have to change the fuel pump at that time. The car is due to go into the shop on Aug. 09. I'll post a report when I get it back.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 19
That's exactly what I was thinking, as an LS2 kit has yet to materialize on an actual car. I am really excited to see how your car turns out.
However, why would headers cause lost boost? That makes no sense. If you had some massive cam overlap and were relying on exhaust backpressure to maintain your MAP, then maybe, but that cam has -4 overlap.
Also, has anyone called their Chevy dealer to get a quote on installing the Z06 pump. While a Boost-a-pump clearly works, when you are putting a $6500 SC kit into a $50k car, wouldn't the added insurance of the bigger pump be the smart thing to do? It seems like every time I read about a blown FI motor it's because not enough fuel was getting to the engine.
Edelbrock is pretty adamant about it on their website, and they have nothing to gain from it other than their customers not blowing their engines.
However, why would headers cause lost boost? That makes no sense. If you had some massive cam overlap and were relying on exhaust backpressure to maintain your MAP, then maybe, but that cam has -4 overlap.
Also, has anyone called their Chevy dealer to get a quote on installing the Z06 pump. While a Boost-a-pump clearly works, when you are putting a $6500 SC kit into a $50k car, wouldn't the added insurance of the bigger pump be the smart thing to do? It seems like every time I read about a blown FI motor it's because not enough fuel was getting to the engine.
Edelbrock is pretty adamant about it on their website, and they have nothing to gain from it other than their customers not blowing their engines.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,999
Likes: 1,685
From: Southeast TX
I've arranged for Livernois Motorsports to install and E-Force blower on my A6 LS2. I didn't want to wait for Edelbrock to release the LS2 setup so we'll be using LS3 heads and a Livernois Stage 2C cam with 224/236 duration, .612 lift and 117 LSA. According to Rick @ Livernois, this cam will make good power on the blown setup with a stock converter and will only require a Boost-a-Pump. The car currently has a Magnaflow catback with stock exhaust manifolds. He indicated that if or when I add headers I would have to change the blower pulley to recover lost boost and would probably have to change the fuel pump at that time. The car is due to go into the shop on Aug. 09. I'll post a report when I get it back.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,999
Likes: 1,685
From: Southeast TX
That's exactly what I was thinking, as an LS2 kit has yet to materialize on an actual car. I am really excited to see how your car turns out.
However, why would headers cause lost boost? That makes no sense. If you had some massive cam overlap and were relying on exhaust backpressure to maintain your MAP, then maybe, but that cam has -4 overlap.
Also, has anyone called their Chevy dealer to get a quote on installing the Z06 pump. While a Boost-a-pump clearly works, when you are putting a $6500 SC kit into a $50k car, wouldn't the added insurance of the bigger pump be the smart thing to do? It seems like every time I read about a blown FI motor it's because not enough fuel was getting to the engine.
Edelbrock is pretty adamant about it on their website, and they have nothing to gain from it other than their customers not blowing their engines.
However, why would headers cause lost boost? That makes no sense. If you had some massive cam overlap and were relying on exhaust backpressure to maintain your MAP, then maybe, but that cam has -4 overlap.
Also, has anyone called their Chevy dealer to get a quote on installing the Z06 pump. While a Boost-a-pump clearly works, when you are putting a $6500 SC kit into a $50k car, wouldn't the added insurance of the bigger pump be the smart thing to do? It seems like every time I read about a blown FI motor it's because not enough fuel was getting to the engine.
Edelbrock is pretty adamant about it on their website, and they have nothing to gain from it other than their customers not blowing their engines.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 77
From: Northville MI
You're going to seriously fall in love with that setup. The cam might be just a little big with an A6, but the TVS will pump up the bottom end. Add the headers when you do the work so you won't need another tune. With 8+ psi, you're looking at well over 600rwhp even with the A6. I've been running a similar setup for over a year now. Sheet eatin' grin every time I drive it
jxhunte, I will keep you apprised of how this setup works for me in the event Edelbrock keeps pushing the release date for the LS2 E-Force further away.
Last edited by 10mikeymike; Jul 23, 2010 at 07:04 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,753
Likes: 210
From: North Western Connecticut
I think I'm going to take your advice and do the headers and the Z06 fuel pump while the car is in the shop. I spoke to Rick@Livernois and he recommends Kooks L/T's with a catted X-pipe. I questioned the need for the Boost-A-Pump with the Z06 pump and he indicated they would still use it even with the upgrade. He said this is how they are setting up the new Camaro's they are installing blowers on. August 9th seems so far away
jxhunte, I will keep you apprised of how this setup works for me in the event Edelbrock keeps pushing the release date for the LS2 E-Force further away.
jxhunte, I will keep you apprised of how this setup works for me in the event Edelbrock keeps pushing the release date for the LS2 E-Force further away.
I've been monitoring IAT's on my bone stock car and was shocked to see how fast and high the IAT's climb on a hot day. I've seen 150 to 160 degs when it was 90 degs in a just a few mins idling. Now that's some serious hot air being forced through your engine. Also those temps don't come down very fast even once you start moving again. So a super charger would really get dialed back with those kind of IAT's. Fortunately we do't have a lot of 90 deg days around here so I'm not expecting a big issue.. but I don't want to do anything that might exacerbate the situation either.....
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 605
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From: Rocky Mountains Colorado
I think I'm going to take your advice and do the headers and the Z06 fuel pump while the car is in the shop. I spoke to Rick@Livernois and he recommends Kooks L/T's with a catted X-pipe. I questioned the need for the Boost-A-Pump with the Z06 pump and he indicated they would still use it even with the upgrade. He said this is how they are setting up the new Camaro's they are installing blowers on. August 9th seems so far away
jxhunte, I will keep you apprised of how this setup works for me in the event Edelbrock keeps pushing the release date for the LS2 E-Force further away.
jxhunte, I will keep you apprised of how this setup works for me in the event Edelbrock keeps pushing the release date for the LS2 E-Force further away.
My LS2 is equipped with sterling coated Kooks Long Tubes, high flow CATS and Corsa Sport Exhaust. Without question, this configuration runs cooler IAT's than stock, I just can't give before and after numbers.
Does anyone believe the Crane Quick Lift Rocker Arm Kit (Tom Henry Racing) will add to the performance (HP) of the E-Force or would this be a wasted step.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 605
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From: Rocky Mountains Colorado
Crane Cams offers a Quick Lift Roller Rocker Arm Kit which in a test by Tom Henry Racing provided an additional 20.5-hp SAE net at the flywheel. This was on an Naturally Aspirated and otherwise stock LS2. I will be adding the E-Force SC (LS2) this fall assuming it is available for order. Will adding the Crane Cam Quick Lift Rocker Arm Kit to my LS2 have any performance impact (positive or negative) to the addition of the E-Force SC?