E-FORCE "canned" tune question
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 488
Likes: 28
From: Olive Branch MS
E-FORCE "canned" tune question
I am considering the 599hp version (#1591) kit for my GS A6. I was wondering how good the tune that Edelbrock sends is. I would imagine that it is very conservative. Also, I have a set of ARH 1 3/4 catted headers already on the car + corsa sports...Would the tune provided be adequate for daily driving purposes or would a custom tune be more suited for this kind of power increase WITH the catted headers. I would think that the tune sent is for a completely bone stock ls3. I have also read one one forum/thread (not this one) that a tune sent to another customer was the "non-updated" tune (long and short of it -- it was all jacked up)...what does that mean! Any thoughts/reccomendations would help.
Scott
Scott
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,596
Likes: 19
From: Portland Oregon
If you use the canned tune, you had better make sure that you have the latest cal in their hand held. I just installed their canned tune from a kit that whas shipped to my shop. That particular tune was an old version which caused all sorts of issues with the TCM. It was too late to call Edelbrock for support so I spent hours and hours finding the fault to fix the TCM issues. Its good enough to get it running and be safe to drive, but its pretty conservative.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 488
Likes: 28
From: Olive Branch MS
If you use the canned tune, you had better make sure that you have the latest cal in their hand held. I just installed their canned tune from a kit that whas shipped to my shop. That particular tune was an old version which caused all sorts of issues with the TCM. It was too late to call Edelbrock for support so I spent hours and hours finding the fault to fix the TCM issues. Its good enough to get it running and be safe to drive, but its pretty conservative.
And how "unsafe" would the Edelbrock tune be with catted ARH headers?
Scott
Thanks for the input guys!
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 82
Scott,
Your AFR values will be off with the headers. I would not describe it as "Unsafe". I would call it "Less than Optimal". Most of this will be mitigated with Long Term Fuel Trims in normal driving mode. To get the max out of the kit you'll want your car calibrated for the headers.
There is also a lot of "conservatism" in the spark tables...leaves power on the table that could be optimized by a good tuner.
Your AFR values will be off with the headers. I would not describe it as "Unsafe". I would call it "Less than Optimal". Most of this will be mitigated with Long Term Fuel Trims in normal driving mode. To get the max out of the kit you'll want your car calibrated for the headers.
There is also a lot of "conservatism" in the spark tables...leaves power on the table that could be optimized by a good tuner.
Last edited by Motorhead-47; Aug 21, 2010 at 06:38 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 488
Likes: 28
From: Olive Branch MS
Scott,
Your AFR values will be off with the headers. I would not describe it as "Unsafe". I would call it "Less than Optimal". Most of this will be mitigated with Long Term Fuel Trims in normal driving mode. To get the max out of the kit you'll want your car calibrated for the headers.
There is also a long of "conservatism" in the spark tables...leaves power on the table that could be optimized by a good tuner.
Your AFR values will be off with the headers. I would not describe it as "Unsafe". I would call it "Less than Optimal". Most of this will be mitigated with Long Term Fuel Trims in normal driving mode. To get the max out of the kit you'll want your car calibrated for the headers.
There is also a long of "conservatism" in the spark tables...leaves power on the table that could be optimized by a good tuner.
My plan is to get with Edelbrock Monday to review the status of the "updated" programmers that ALL vendors have access to with the kit. I do realized that the program, once uploaded will be borderline safe...but I will definately get a custom tune to guarantee that the a/f ratios are up to specs for "optimal" driving conditions given the headers that I have. Great advice and comments thanks!
Scott
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 82
If you want the absolute latest version release it looks like Edelbrock's website has a 8/3/2010 release. It's a simple download and updating the programmer is pretty straightforward via the USB port. Instructions and software are at the following link...
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...oft-tech.shtml
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...oft-tech.shtml
Last edited by Motorhead-47; Aug 22, 2010 at 06:50 AM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 488
Likes: 28
From: Olive Branch MS
Looking at Edelbrock's website it appears they have an 8/3/2010 update released. It's a simple download and updating the programmer is pretty straightforward via the USB port.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...oft-tech.shtml
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...oft-tech.shtml
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 802
Likes: 6
From: Oro Valley AZ
I am considering the 599hp version (#1591) kit for my GS A6. I was wondering how good the tune that Edelbrock sends is. I would imagine that it is very conservative. Also, I have a set of ARH 1 3/4 catted headers already on the car + corsa sports...Would the tune provided be adequate for daily driving purposes or would a custom tune be more suited for this kind of power increase WITH the catted headers. I would think that the tune sent is for a completely bone stock ls3. I have also read one one forum/thread (not this one) that a tune sent to another customer was the "non-updated" tune (long and short of it -- it was all jacked up)...what does that mean! Any thoughts/reccomendations would help.
Scott
Scott
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
That canned tune is only for bone stock cars. If you have even one mod done it isnt accurate. Forced induction cars are very very critial of tuning issues. If you have fuel and spark off even in the slightest way, it could cost a bottom end.
I can and will verify the safety of any tune for free for anyone that comes by my house in colorado springs CO for a scan. We can get lunch and talk shop afterward.
I can and will verify the safety of any tune for free for anyone that comes by my house in colorado springs CO for a scan. We can get lunch and talk shop afterward.
Last edited by SpinMonster; Aug 22, 2010 at 12:00 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 82
The calibration that comes on that hand held is a one-size-fits all for a specific combination....same idea as your stock calibration. Change the configuration and you'll need to change the calibration to fit the new configuration.
Last edited by Motorhead-47; Aug 22, 2010 at 06:47 AM.
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Chattanooga Tennessee
Check out the speed engineering and dyno web site! He just completed a 2010 Camaro with the E-Force. He dynoed the car before and after with the can tune and again after he custom tuned the car. I'm going to say conservative is probably not the word everyone is looking for after seeing these numbers.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 82
Check out the speed engineering and dyno web site! He just completed a 2010 Camaro with the E-Force. He dynoed the car before and after with the can tune and again after he custom tuned the car. I'm going to say conservative is probably not the word everyone is looking for after seeing these numbers.
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Chattanooga Tennessee
IMHO the site you ref'd is just a sales pitch for a tuning shop. It is unlikely that the jump from the #2 to #3 dyno run was just a calibration change and nothing else. I'd bet a beer that there was at least a pulley change (more boost) in there that helped net the extra 100rwhp. It's the lack of any detail at all (what wasn't said) that misleads folks.
And as for the Beer goes you name it.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 82
Well your entitled to your opinion a I respect that! But this guy has done all the tuning on my Ls1 and now my 08 vette. He is good at what he does and has never mislead me. After all I bought this car with a professionaly installed cam and exhaust system and it drives like crap. I can see why I am the 4th owner of the vehicle in only 2 years. I took it to him to be fixed. It drives much better and picked up 22 RWHP. I can testify to the fact he does not cheat with his dyno like some people do. I wanted to dyno my ls1 without the belts on it. He done it because I was paying for of course but deleted the run as soon as it was over. I know him well enough to say he does not believe in lying about numbers and products. He has went above and beyond to make sure I leave his shop with exactly what I want and will be happy with. So that is my opinion hope you respect it just as I do yours!
And as for the Beer goes you name it.
And as for the Beer goes you name it.
I only replied to your original post because you implied that your shop found 100rwph in a tune. I'm sure your guy is a good tuner and knows his business. No doubt he can squeeze more power out of the E-Force. I'm just very skeptical that a calibration change by itself got him anywhere near 100 extra ponies.
Ask him what was hardware was changed from dyno #2 to dyno #3...
I will admit that the unchanged Edelbrock tune on that MN6 Camaro did come in at less than what I would have expected.
Last edited by Motorhead-47; Aug 22, 2010 at 10:02 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 82
A few more details on the Camaro in question above...this car is in a thread over on the Camaro5 board. Belongs to a "PJ Droopey Pants" I think was the name. Car had exactly 1 dyno run on the Edelbrock tune and then spent another 12hrs being tuned to get the big numbers. Car was pretty leaned out on the dyno. It looks like a pretty solid 12+ AFR from the screenshot..more than I'd like.
For reference the Edelbrock tune is set up for a target AFR of 11.0 above 2750rpm...pretty rich/conservative. The real magic would be in the timing tables where things are very conservative in the E-Force calibration...helps with that 100,000 warranty option!
For reference the Edelbrock tune is set up for a target AFR of 11.0 above 2750rpm...pretty rich/conservative. The real magic would be in the timing tables where things are very conservative in the E-Force calibration...helps with that 100,000 warranty option!
Last edited by Motorhead-47; Aug 22, 2010 at 12:01 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 488
Likes: 28
From: Olive Branch MS
Scott
