mail order tunes?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Tumwater, WA
Premium Supporting Vendor
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From: Providing the most proven supercharger kits for your C5/6/7 609-752-0321
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
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From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
IMO mail order tunes are like mail order brain surgery.
Some things are the same on every PCM like CAGS elimination or lower temp fans. But when it comes to a/f ratio and ignition advance, that's where it really matters because no two cars behave the same.
There is no substitute for a good tuner with a good dyno.
Some things are the same on every PCM like CAGS elimination or lower temp fans. But when it comes to a/f ratio and ignition advance, that's where it really matters because no two cars behave the same.
There is no substitute for a good tuner with a good dyno.
Last edited by Mez; Feb 1, 2011 at 05:17 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 82
From: Tumwater, WA
IMO mail order tunes are like mail order mail order brain surgery.
Some things are the same on every PCM like CAGS elimination or lower temp fans. But when it comes to a/f ratio and ignition advance, that's where it really matters because no two cars behave the same.
There is no substitute for a good tuner with a good dyno.
Some things are the same on every PCM like CAGS elimination or lower temp fans. But when it comes to a/f ratio and ignition advance, that's where it really matters because no two cars behave the same.
There is no substitute for a good tuner with a good dyno.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 82
From: Tumwater, WA
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 3
From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
This is true but a mail order tune or canned tune) that reads your cars parameters and then accounts for the mods you have and then tunes it can get you probably to 95% of what the dyno tune can get you too, especially if you re read the ECU after the tune and get it refined. All cars are canned tuned from factory to begin with and work fine, but not all are the same but close. Ive had canned tunes on my turbo cars and they ran great and I never had any problems with them. So a few hundred dollars for a canned tune and a device that can read and clear codes compared to a thousand dollar dyno tune, that doesnt give you a diag device, seems a good choice. Plus some places (like mine) dont have good quality tuner shops to go to for tunes.
Yes, as you said, the car "ran fine" but after a proper tune, they picked up a lot more HP and maintained a safe A/F ratio. I've seen tunes that were total just crap. Even from well known tuners.
Just last week I witnessed a 2008 Corvette with an A&A supercharger rolled in with 544 rwhp. Very lean A/F ratio and very low ignition advance. After these were adjusted, it dyno'd 590 rwhp. As you said, the car ran fine but the owner was shocked how much power it picked up. It was not initially tuned by anyone on this forum.
On a mildly modded 2005 GTO, a well-known tuner had set the ignition advance at 26° flat from 3500-6500 at WOT. Just by changing the advance and tweaking the a/f ratio, it picked up 15 rwhp and rwtq.
This ain't magic. It's no secret that there are many hacks out there. Some will cover their tracks by shutting off DTC so you don't know if something is really messed up.
My advice is be careful. Anyone that won't provide details of what was done, run away.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,052
Likes: 14
IMO mail order tunes are like mail order brain surgery.
Some things are the same on every PCM like CAGS elimination or lower temp fans. But when it comes to a/f ratio and ignition advance, that's where it really matters because no two cars behave the same.
There is no substitute for a good tuner with a good dyno.
Some things are the same on every PCM like CAGS elimination or lower temp fans. But when it comes to a/f ratio and ignition advance, that's where it really matters because no two cars behave the same.
There is no substitute for a good tuner with a good dyno.
When I bought my 03 Cobra Pre-Kenne Bell (2.8 pulley/CAI/Catback) it had a Diablo canned tune and it was spot on and made 46xrwhp. That's F/I no less-
For a bolt-on (cai/headers/FAST) I would not hesitate to go mail order. Even when cam'd I wouldn't have a problem but getting the most power obviously won't be mail order.
Will a mail order tune be safe? Absolutely- (given they are reputable, as Doug pointed out)
Will you get more power with a dyno tune? Absolutely-
Last edited by JayplaySS2; Feb 1, 2011 at 06:08 PM.
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From: Providing the most proven supercharger kits for your C5/6/7 609-752-0321
Bottom line is there are reputable tuners and non reputable tuners. There are builds that should not be done via mail order, and there are builds that are just fine to do mail order. We send out many tunes as a "start up tune only" that need to be checked afterwards on bigger builds, but this allows the person to know the car is ready for the dyno. A bolt on car, headers air box etc, are just fine to send out mail order, and will work just fine, same as your stock tune. Which we verify over and over again with our in house installs.
Is an in person tune (by a reputable shop) always best? Sure is, but we have now performed literally 1,000's of mail order tunes with many, many happy customers. Hard to argue with that.
Is an in person tune (by a reputable shop) always best? Sure is, but we have now performed literally 1,000's of mail order tunes with many, many happy customers. Hard to argue with that.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,759
Likes: 539
From: AZ
St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
For either Doug or Chuck. Does autocal require a PC running Windows or will it work with a Mac also? If windows is required, what version of Windows is the minimum required?
Thanks
Thanks
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,792
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From: Ossining New York
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Hey there.....
I'm waiting for a reply from EFI LIVE on the PC min requirement....
UPDATE:Here's your answer from EFI LIVE's Creator...
Chuck...
Win 2K is the earliest we support now.
But Win XP or Win7 are better.
Don't use Vista.
Regards
Paul
Win 2K is the earliest we support now.
But Win XP or Win7 are better.
Don't use Vista.
Regards
Paul
DUDE, this is the tool for you.
Every day it gets better and better....
In fact, tonight I'm considering releasing the latest AUTOCAL breakthru for the A6 CARS....
Stay Tuned!
Chuck CoW
Last edited by Chuck CoW; Feb 1, 2011 at 07:25 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,759
Likes: 539
From: AZ
St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Hey there Marty.....
I'm waiting for a reply from EFI LIVE on the PC min requirement....
UPDATE:Here's your answer from EFI LIVE's Creator...
So far, I've had a few customers running windows on a MAC and efi live works just as if it's on a pc.
DUDE, this is the tool for you.
Every day it gets better and better....
In fact, tonight I'm considering releasing the latest AUTOCAL breakthru for the A6 CARS....
Stay Tuned!
Chuck CoW
I'm waiting for a reply from EFI LIVE on the PC min requirement....
UPDATE:Here's your answer from EFI LIVE's Creator...
So far, I've had a few customers running windows on a MAC and efi live works just as if it's on a pc.
DUDE, this is the tool for you.
Every day it gets better and better....
In fact, tonight I'm considering releasing the latest AUTOCAL breakthru for the A6 CARS....
Stay Tuned!
Chuck CoW
Thanks.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 3
From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
Agreed. I tuned my own car, watched others tune, and am still learning. Although I am not a tuner by trade, I know a hack job when I see one. This is more complex that most people realize especially on heavily modded cars. A common short cut is to rape the PE table to achieve the desired A/F ratio. For those that don't know what that means, its like using Bondo to cover a rust hole on a fender.
A reputable tuner generally starts out with a tune from a similar set up and goes from there. This was pointed out in Greg Banish's books. I think he also said, a monkey could tune a car for WOT. Its all the other functions where they earn their money like start up, idle, transition, economy, etc.
However, on this forum, its generally not permitted to post threads naming who is not a reputable tuner. While it may be a good policy otherwise it will turn into a flame-fest, I wish there was a certification process because the way it is now, anyone with a PC and HP Tuners/EFI Live can say they are a tuner.
Most professions have a certification process but to my knowledge, there is none here.
A reputable tuner generally starts out with a tune from a similar set up and goes from there. This was pointed out in Greg Banish's books. I think he also said, a monkey could tune a car for WOT. Its all the other functions where they earn their money like start up, idle, transition, economy, etc.
However, on this forum, its generally not permitted to post threads naming who is not a reputable tuner. While it may be a good policy otherwise it will turn into a flame-fest, I wish there was a certification process because the way it is now, anyone with a PC and HP Tuners/EFI Live can say they are a tuner.
Most professions have a certification process but to my knowledge, there is none here.
Last edited by Mez; Feb 1, 2011 at 10:13 PM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,792
Likes: 255
From: Ossining New York
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Know what.... ? Join the club.....
and now they want their old A6 back!
People will find it hard to believe, but I know a few guys in that position right now....
A properly tuned A6 car is LOTS OF FUN!
Chuck CoW